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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#80926: Mar 11th 2018 at 7:30:03 PM

Super Saiyan God: Beat Kale and Caulifla.

Super Saiyan Blue: Beat Golden Freeza (Freeza running out of stamina counts as a win), Cabba, SSR Black, Krillin, Space Poachers, the Trio De Dangers, Ribrianne, and Anilaza with teamwork.

Golden Freeza: Beat U9 assassins, Cabba, Anilaza with teamwork, base Dyspo, and beat base Toppo with teamwork.

Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken: Basically beat Hit. Beat initial Merged Zamasu, Bergamo, and Gohan.

The Magical Girls: Literally no-one laughed at them aside from Freeza, who chuckles at everything. Ribrianne beat Jirasen, base Goku, and 18 until 18 made a comeback.

Super Saiyan 2 Cabba: Beat Monna.

Kale, both Crazy and In Control: Beat almost all of the Pride Troopers as well as SS2 Goku.

Muscular Caulifla: Grade 3 was never meant to achieve anything, not before and not here.

Kafla: Beat Goku in SSG, SSB, and SSB KK.

Ultra Instinct "Omen": Beat SS2 Kafla.

Super Saiyan Blue Evolution: Beat God Toppo.

Ultra Instinct: We haven't seen it lose yet. I would also say this is basically the same form as Ultra Instinct "Omen", just like how Grade 4 is almost never counted as separate from Super Saiyan 1.

To contrast:

SS2: Beat the Cell Jrs, Cell, Yakon, maybe present Zamasu, Goku and Caulifla went back and forth, both in this form, but neither actually secured a win.

SS3: Beat SS2 Future Trunks.

edited 11th Mar '18 7:36:48 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#80927: Mar 11th 2018 at 7:32:34 PM

Man almost all of that is just in this specific arc.

Figures they only start gaining wins against people multiple levels weaker than them.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#80928: Mar 11th 2018 at 7:37:21 PM

[up][up][up] Well you can say the same thing about Goku and Freeza, they hadn't even met face to face before they fought each other.

I don't think Gohan needed more buildup for his role to work because the story had been paralleling his journey with Goku's since the first arc he debuted, and he was already said to have the potential to be vastly stronger as time went on.

The culmination of it is the Cell arc where Gohan has to succeed his father and take up the mantle as hero. It's a pre

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#80929: Mar 11th 2018 at 7:37:43 PM

I've added Anilaza to SSB and Golden's victories, noting that it was due to teamwork.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#80930: Mar 11th 2018 at 7:52:00 PM

Really, Gohan's problem is Toriyama changing his mind about him being the new protagonist at the last second.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#80931: Mar 11th 2018 at 7:58:57 PM

What If: Gohand did beat Super Boo, but Kid Boo still happened?

No setup, but just an idea.

Seeing how they all died anyway, skipping Vegetto seems the way to go.

edited 11th Mar '18 7:59:50 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#80932: Mar 11th 2018 at 8:14:14 PM

I'm conflicted about that, because I love Vegetto, but he only exists because Toriyama decided to throw Gohan under the bus, and he ultimately didn't accomplish much either.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#80933: Mar 11th 2018 at 8:16:08 PM

Though at least with Vegetto it's not like he "failed". He did exactly what he was trying to do, just unforeseen circumstances couldn't leave him intact.

I know this is probably a dead horse at this point, but how do you feel about the retcon about the Potara not being permeant (for non-Kais, anyway) versus just the atmosphere of Buu's insides or whatever somehow undoing it?

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#80934: Mar 11th 2018 at 8:17:39 PM

I do not like the retcon.

There is literally nothing separating Gogeta & Vegito now as a result.

I mean I thought Buu's gooey magic guts affecting earrings made sense.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#80935: Mar 11th 2018 at 8:20:17 PM

It's needless because the Dragon Balls were established as capable of undoing the Potara, so there was already no risk to using them.

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#80936: Mar 11th 2018 at 8:22:15 PM

[up][up]They're still separated by their win-loss-tie ratio.

edited 11th Mar '18 8:22:25 PM by LordVatek

This song needs more love.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#80937: Mar 11th 2018 at 8:25:56 PM

[up] ........ Oh yeah that's right.

[up][up] Man not having Vegito join the main cast for a bit was wasted potential.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#80938: Mar 11th 2018 at 8:40:21 PM

[up][up][up]Wasn't that also established in Super?

They probably shouldn't have done even that, Kibito Kai among the other Supreme Kai could've been something.

edited 11th Mar '18 8:41:53 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#80939: Mar 11th 2018 at 8:54:41 PM

Well the reason Kibito even exists is because Toriyama didn't know what to do with Kibito (or Shin for that matter).

And yeah, the time limit for non Kais was really dumb when we had already established that the dragon balls could reverse Potara Fusion.

Toriyama's tendency to do anything to get the plot how he wants can be a drawback sometimes.

One Strip! One Strip!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#80940: Mar 11th 2018 at 8:56:47 PM

Them unfusing in Buu's guts felt like a damnable ass pull anyway, not helped by the flimsy handwaving

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#80941: Mar 11th 2018 at 8:58:19 PM

Potara having a time limit for mortals works better than Buu's magic insides breaking them apart. It being a retcon is annoying, but a retcon that improves canon is still an improvement.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#80942: Mar 11th 2018 at 8:58:35 PM

There never really was an explanation really, which I suppose is why he came up with the fusion earring time limit for mortals thing.

I wish he'd come up with anything beyond that however.

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#80943: Mar 11th 2018 at 9:00:18 PM

There was no need for an improvement.

He took away something instead of adding anything.

It didn't improve anything.

edited 11th Mar '18 9:00:41 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#80944: Mar 11th 2018 at 9:01:32 PM

I wish I knew more about the production side of things for the Buu Saga because if an ex-editor can influence the direction of Toriyama's plot just by mocking his character designs, I want to know what was going on during the Buu Saga.

Maybe a disaffected teenager sat next to him the whole time he worked, scoffing 'whatever' and 'boring' whenever he discussed the plot.

edited 11th Mar '18 9:02:22 PM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#80945: Mar 11th 2018 at 9:05:03 PM

Actually, from what we know it's just the opposite. The Buu Saga is what happens when Toriyama's editor doesn't try to stop him from doing stupid shit and Akira's just allowed to run wild, writing twists out of nowhere as he pleases.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#80946: Mar 11th 2018 at 9:05:29 PM

Good lord

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#80948: Mar 11th 2018 at 9:10:39 PM

Well, Kibito went away after defusing anyway. Might as well kept them fused and let their uniqueness be commented on Universally.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#80949: Mar 11th 2018 at 9:12:34 PM

I was happy Shin and Kibito de-fused; Old Kai was a gigantic ass to them.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#80950: Mar 11th 2018 at 9:14:56 PM

Is he somehow not...anymore?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.

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