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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#80801: Mar 10th 2018 at 6:12:56 PM

I'd say the concept itself is veeeeerry flawed. It really goes against the spirit of this speech by Roshi.

It's pretty fair to argue the story abused the Dragon Balls, but the characters never did. So the characters shouldn't be held accountable or 'punished' for their actions.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#80802: Mar 10th 2018 at 6:17:11 PM

The Shadow Dragons Arc also has the issue of why no one ever warned them about "negative energy build-up" in the first place.

You can't really hold them responsible for something they had absolutely no way to know about otherwise.

edited 10th Mar '18 6:21:53 PM by LSBK

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#80803: Mar 10th 2018 at 6:19:40 PM

Only Vegetarian's sacrifice was undone unintentionally...

Looking back on that subject...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#80804: Mar 10th 2018 at 6:24:13 PM

From what I understand, the characters do not regret using the dragon balls because they were necessary, and when bad things happen as a result they take responsibility for their actions (by murdering a bunch of evil dragons). So I don't see the problem.

Taking a narrative crutch and turning it into their greatest threat is a pretty sweet idea.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#80805: Mar 10th 2018 at 6:27:29 PM

The ultimate problem is that the existence of the Dragon Balls would be immoral by design.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#80806: Mar 10th 2018 at 6:36:12 PM

[up][up] That's not what happens at all. The characters who knew about the threat but said nothing (Popo, Dende, Old Kaioshin, Kibitoshin) take turns blaming Goku, Bulma and the group at large for using the balls and creating the problem.

Which makes them dumb, wrong and assholes.

[up] Why is that?

edited 10th Mar '18 6:36:40 PM by Saiga

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#80807: Mar 10th 2018 at 6:38:53 PM

IIRC, Elder Kai did mention that the Dragon Ball overuse was bad during the Buu saga.

This song needs more love.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#80808: Mar 10th 2018 at 6:40:28 PM

Why should the Dragon Balls exist if using them produces evil beings powerful enough to wipe out life in the universe? That's all the "don't use them" Aesop amounts to with stuff like this.

edited 10th Mar '18 6:41:57 PM by VeryMelon

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#80809: Mar 10th 2018 at 6:46:05 PM

Oh, that's what you meant. I thought you meant the DBs themselves are immoral by their primary function, not their Shadow Dragon stuff.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#80810: Mar 10th 2018 at 6:52:50 PM

Stuff like that is to avoid overuse, but the idea only works if the thing that made them is like...in the middle moral wise. As a God should be.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Fedetropes Call me Blast, not Fedetropes from Doomed universe Since: Dec, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Call me Blast, not Fedetropes
#80811: Mar 10th 2018 at 7:06:00 PM

Yeah one of the problems with the shadow dragons is that they try to make the heroes seem like the bad guys...for using the DB for selfless deeds (reviving people, repairing the damage, etc).

The other one is that nobody told them about this and try to blame the heroes.

¡PONLE QUE DIGA!:"¡HUMONGOSAURIO HASTA LA MUERTE!"
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#80812: Mar 10th 2018 at 7:13:35 PM

I'm pretty sure the idea is that the Z Fighters should've been better heroes so they wouldn't need to use the Dragon Balls to fix their mistakes.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#80813: Mar 10th 2018 at 7:15:30 PM

I thought it was pretty weird how, in Dragon Ball Fusions, Omega Shenron flat-out tells the main characters that he was created because people made too many wishes. Despite this, at no point do the main characters even hypothetically suggest that they should use the Dragon Balls less.

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#80814: Mar 10th 2018 at 7:17:46 PM

That's because there's no way to reconcile the Shadow Dragons with the rest of the canon.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#80815: Mar 10th 2018 at 7:18:32 PM

That's not what happens at all. The characters who knew about the threat but said nothing (Popo, Dende, Old Kaioshin, Kibitoshin) take turns blaming Goku, Bulma and the group at large for using the balls and creating the problem.

Which makes them dumb, wrong and assholes.

Ah. I never saw that part. I only saw clips from the Dragon fights where Goku goes (paraphrasing) "Yeah, we used the Dragonballs a lot, but it was only ever for good reasons" *Kamehameha's dragon in the face*.

I can understand the Kais being out of touch assholes with the mortals about this, but Dende doing it too is really disappointing.

Why should the Dragon Balls exist if using them produces evil beings powerful enough to wipe out life in the universe? That's all the "don't use them" Aesop amounts to with stuff like this.

From what I understand, scattering the balls across the world after a wish was meant to keep them from being used too much and let the negative energy go down naturally, but this system wasn't designed with dragon radars and people who can speedily fly around the world in mind

edited 10th Mar '18 7:18:38 PM by Moth13

Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#80816: Mar 10th 2018 at 7:20:47 PM

Actually yeah do we know how often the dragon balls were used before the radar? Obviously not once a year, but I wonder what would have been the 'intended' amount of uses to balance the energy.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#80817: Mar 10th 2018 at 7:22:41 PM

I remember it being said the negative energy from one wish, took 100 years to dissipate.

edited 10th Mar '18 7:23:13 PM by LSBK

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#80818: Mar 10th 2018 at 7:26:31 PM

Yeah, they also make a point that the Dragon Balls scattered supposedly to let 100 years pass before the next wish. Though, God already explained why they scattered - he wanted to make it a journey/test of spirit to gather them all and be worthy of the wish. In addition, since the creators can set modifications on the balls, it wouldn't make sense to create that limitations when God could just set them to only grant a wish every 100 years.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#80819: Mar 10th 2018 at 7:27:57 PM

[up] Excellent points. It would make far more sense for this to be an unforseen consequence of the balls being used so often.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#80820: Mar 10th 2018 at 7:29:07 PM

Is a God not allowed to punish humans who get too reliant on what almost counts as a "get out of jail free" card?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#80821: Mar 10th 2018 at 7:30:42 PM

The Shadow Dragon Saga is GT at it's finest. Cool idea, but nothing about it was thought about beyond the surface level.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#80822: Mar 10th 2018 at 7:30:58 PM

It's kind of a dick move to do so when they were given no warning about it.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#80823: Mar 10th 2018 at 7:33:22 PM

That's not uncommon, but I suppose this God was a "nice" character.

edited 10th Mar '18 7:33:54 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#80824: Mar 10th 2018 at 7:34:23 PM

This is Dragonball, all gods are morons, incompetents, assholes or all three.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014

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