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Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#80701: Mar 8th 2018 at 8:28:24 PM

Toppo seemed like he was standing around and doing nothing a lot of the time too tbh.

Remember that time he punched Cabba?

You know, with Ultra Instinct giving you white hair, that joke comic about El Grade Padre turning out to be a Super Saiyan Blanco might actually be canon.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#80702: Mar 8th 2018 at 8:59:30 PM

I'd like Lavender more if his poison wasn't applied to his hands. Having poisonous breath, alright, but having "poison fists" just looks stupid to me.

And Basil, fighting with just kicks is badass, but the way they reuse it, and his reliance on it to fire energy blasts is really off-putting.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#80703: Mar 8th 2018 at 9:02:10 PM

Juri Han and King don't appreciate you knocking foot based ki blasts.

One Strip! One Strip!
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#80704: Mar 8th 2018 at 9:23:13 PM

He didn't teleport back to the stands, so he'd have to still be in, unless he were dead.

He IS dead, though. tongue

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#80705: Mar 8th 2018 at 10:13:24 PM

[up][up] And Shinobu Sensui

Plus, going more with the fighting game references, F.A.N.G. in regards to the poison fists.

edited 8th Mar '18 10:14:20 PM by KnownUnknown

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#80706: Mar 8th 2018 at 10:18:52 PM

Is FANG really who you wanna go with? The guy who can literally be defeated by a stiff breeze?

My various fanfics.
RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#80707: Mar 8th 2018 at 10:25:30 PM

I mentioned this before, but how fast is Frieza in the Namek Saga? He plans to leave Namek before it explodes but his ship is broken, how long is it gonna take him until he reaches civilization where he can continue to business as usual. This is also true of Cell before he gets Instant Transmission, given he will need to find another planet to kill people if he got what he wanted with the Cell Games.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#80708: Mar 8th 2018 at 10:40:54 PM

I don't think Sible is criticising the idea of Basil's kicking/kick blast style, just the way it was handled.

Poison fists is weird but poison claws could have been cool

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#80710: Mar 9th 2018 at 1:57:03 AM

That's... interesting. So Jiren was originally supposed to be what Toppo ended up as.

I think I actually would've liked him that way. A final boss who is loud, bombastic and vainglorious but actually as competent as he claims is a rare thing, on both sides of the Pacific.

Also, there's a stinger, apparently, that may be setting up for future stuff.

edited 9th Mar '18 1:58:12 AM by KnownUnknown

Deadpoolrocks Since: Sep, 2010
#80711: Mar 9th 2018 at 1:59:17 AM

I mean i can kinda sorta see where toriyama ia coming from. Most of the dbz villains loved to talk so trying something different was a nice concept

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#80712: Mar 9th 2018 at 2:41:40 AM

Hah, called it on Ribrianne.

Honestly, none of these points are super surprising. I'm absolutely not surprised that Kale being a Broly-type came from the anime, but I'm a little surprised that the entire character was made by Toei. I was previously thinking Toriyama designed the character with a unique form and Toei made that a Broly form, but since they've just created the character entirely I can see the manga keeping her Broly form.

Deadpoolrocks Since: Sep, 2010
#80713: Mar 9th 2018 at 2:45:59 AM

Yeah the characterwas designed from the ground up as broly but a girl and caulifla just came along for the ride

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#80714: Mar 9th 2018 at 2:46:27 AM

This is very interesting information. So, the order of U7 eliminations was always (and presumably will always, when the manga gets to it) be:

Krillin is eliminated first, by Frost with a sneak attack.

Tenshinhan is eliminated second, taking out an opponent (maybe Harmila, maybe it's not that specific) with him.

Roshi is eliminated third, either indirectly by Frost or from pushing himself to the brink of death.

Piccolo is eliminated fourth, by Damon.

18 is eliminated fifth, by saving 17 while fighting Anilaza.

Gohan is eliminated sixth, by taking Dyspo down with him.

17 is eliminated seventh, by sacrificing himself against Jiren.

Vegeta is eliminated eighth, in a last stand against Jiren.

Goku is eliminated ninth, fighting Jiren.

Freeza wins.

Also interesting to get confirmation that Kale was designed by Toei to cash in on Broly while Caulifla was designed by Toriyama as a partner to Kale. Both of which I suspected.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#80715: Mar 9th 2018 at 5:27:33 AM

It was obvious that Kale was meant to be a Broly shout-out. So much for Ultra Instinct being foreshadowed. Xenoverse Jiren makes so much sense now. Toriyama handling the elimination order means it'll be the same in the manga. It also shows us that Toriyama does work pretty closely to the anime team.

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#80716: Mar 9th 2018 at 6:13:14 AM

[up][up] And then he'll be the final antagonist?

edited 9th Mar '18 6:13:20 AM by Luigisan98

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#80717: Mar 9th 2018 at 6:37:39 AM

Huh interesting stuff.

Seems like Toriyama never really thought for Jiren to be anything but stoic like that's the only trait he added.

[down] Ah my apologies I read that wrong then..... still lackluster either way though.

edited 9th Mar '18 6:48:02 AM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#80718: Mar 9th 2018 at 6:44:01 AM

[up]No? His backstory was also done by Toriyama, according to the interview.

[up][up] No idea. Maybe if Freeza's the final villain, Jiren's the final hero.

edited 9th Mar '18 6:45:05 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#80719: Mar 9th 2018 at 7:03:16 AM

To clarify:

  • Things Toriyama had in his original draft: a bunch of character designs, including Quitela, Jiren, Toppo, Dyspo, and Ribrianne. The tournament setting and arena design. Toppo being a God of Destruction candidate. Jiren and Dyspo having no personality. All of the U7 team. What happpens to the U7 fighters. Ultra Instinct.

  • Things Toei did: Jiren and Dyspo's personalities, the former of which went to Toppo. The rest of the Pride Troopers. Brianne De Chateau. Freeza donating energy to Goku. 18 and Ribrianne's fight. Kale.

  • Things Toriyama added: Jiren's backstory, Caulifla.

edited 9th Mar '18 7:03:51 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#80720: Mar 9th 2018 at 7:37:12 AM

@ last page, regarding Basil

I'm not criticizing Basil being a Kick Chick. I'm criticizing how the animation for it looks, and the how the animation gets reused at least twice..

@ Toriyama's translated interview

[nja]So Toei came up with Ribrianne going cute/slender to cute/fat, and Kale being an homage to Broly, and Freeza donating energy to Goku. Toriyama came up with Caulifa, and Jiren's backstory, and Ultra Instinct, and Buu getting replaced.[nja]

This show would be so much better if Toei just hired Toyotaro, or if Toriyama would actually go and oversee the production like he apparently did with BOG.

I don't even know what Toei wanted to do with Jiren and Toppo. He was supposed to be the one shouting "Justice!" all the time? Is that what's going on in Xenoverse 2? Then what was Toppo originally supposed to be like?

edited 9th Mar '18 7:45:03 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#80721: Mar 9th 2018 at 7:41:31 AM

I guess that explains why manga Toppo is a much less fun character than anime Toppo.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#80722: Mar 9th 2018 at 7:50:51 AM

Toppo probably wasn't going to exist period.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#80723: Mar 9th 2018 at 7:55:00 AM

He totally was. Toriyama drew the main three pride troopers first.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#80724: Mar 9th 2018 at 8:15:27 AM

Jiren and Toppo should have been fused into a single character. Get to work Dragonball Fusions.

edited 9th Mar '18 8:16:11 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#80725: Mar 9th 2018 at 10:36:36 AM

It might've actually been interesting for the writers to just go whole-hog on Jiren being quiet and just straight-up make him mute.


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