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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#80301: Mar 5th 2018 at 9:03:10 AM

I found nothing particularly off about Vegeta's behavior, because before the Android arc he hadn't actually been a Super Saiyan. We see glimpses of the same behavior during the fight with Frieza, twice.

It just sounds to me that you're equating a character's priorities and intentions changing do the actual situation and circumstances surrounding them to "going against their character", which...frankly makes no sense.

edited 5th Mar '18 9:05:15 AM by LSBK

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#80302: Mar 5th 2018 at 9:05:10 AM

No we don't because Freeza doesn't actually need time to transform. When Vegeta demands he transform at the start, it's because he doesn't want to waste time. He's not actually handing Freeza any advantages.

"You equating a character's priorities or intentions changing because of things that actually happened to them, and going "outside of their established characters" is your issue."

Care to explain why Vegeta doesn't do any of the things I mentioned while Goku is out in space? What exactly has happened to him that made him stop being so evil? Sure, Freeza's dead, but Vegeta's not a good person, he kills for fun and enjoys it, he only wanted to kill Freeza for revenge for his planet.

edited 5th Mar '18 9:07:28 AM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#80303: Mar 5th 2018 at 9:06:12 AM

He's also confident that he, Gohan, and Krillin can beat him. And as soon as he thinks the Zenkai he gets during the fight has made him a Super Saiyan, he's eager to have a challenge and prove his superiority. It's the same reason he let Cell become perfect in the first place.

As for why he doesn't do any of those things, it's because, again, his priorities changed. As soon as he learned that "Kakkarot" the low-class trash has done what he couldn't, he becomes obsessed with rectifying that mistake. That obsession basically forces out any interest he has in the others.

edited 5th Mar '18 9:08:56 AM by LSBK

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#80304: Mar 5th 2018 at 9:08:33 AM

Yes, he thinks he's stronger because IIRC he's the only one who could see Freeza's attacks. He's confident but he's not mindblowingly stupid.

"As for why he doesn't do any of those things, it's because, again, his priorities changed. As soon as he learned that "Kakkarot" the low-class trash has done what he couldn't, he becomes obsessed with rectifying that mistake. That obsession basically forces out any interest he has in the others."

None of which explains why A. he doesn't get immortality and B. how he manages to go through his entire time on earth without massacring people.

edited 5th Mar '18 9:17:11 AM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#80305: Mar 5th 2018 at 9:10:47 AM

You're splitting hairs here. The point is Vegeta does act in a similar manner at other points when he thinks he has the advantage. It's not something that comes completely out of nowhere.

Even then, assuming he's stronger than Frieza just because he can see his attacks was a very big assumption on his part. And he clearly doesn't expect Frieza to stand a chance from then on. It's not just confidence, it's overconfidence, which is like what other time exactly?

edited 5th Mar '18 9:13:29 AM by LSBK

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#80306: Mar 5th 2018 at 9:12:01 AM

So is Belmoud a moron or just ungodly arrogant?

Cause there is literally less than one minute left on the clock, Goku's still in giving Jiren the fight of his life, & Frieza is somewhere in the ring all but guaranteeing U7's win.

Shouldn't he realize that he might lose this?

edited 5th Mar '18 9:12:20 AM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#80307: Mar 5th 2018 at 9:12:40 AM

That would imply that time isn't moving at the speed of plot here. It's actually really funny when you think about it.

edited 5th Mar '18 9:13:04 AM by LSBK

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#80308: Mar 5th 2018 at 9:14:39 AM

The clock is going to time out, and Freeza's corpse is just going to be chilling somewhere.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#80309: Mar 5th 2018 at 9:18:03 AM

I've just read a great short book by Michael Pillar called Fade In. In it he mentions the Outer Writer and the Inner Writer - the former constantly trying to impose priorities while the latter writes organically. And he says "audiences can tell when an author is trying to force the story to go a certain way".

That's what's happening here. The author was trying to force Vegeta to join the gang, but there was absolutely nothing in anything he'd done previously that would possibly indicate that he would or that they'd be able to tolerate him, let alone for one of them to have his baby.

So he has Vegeta clean up his act massively and not seek what he was seeking previously and not do what he was doing previously. I don't object to what we got since ultimately Vegeta did inject a lot of energy and conflict into a group that didn't have enough, but the actual process to getting there is so blatantly artificial.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#80310: Mar 5th 2018 at 9:18:22 AM

The funniest thing about that is while you can try and headcannon that the fighting is just happening so fast it's being slowed down for us, the audience, (which would still be bullshit, but is a possible crappy in-world explanation) that would be one thing, but the people in the stands are clearly talking at a normal pace, and yet apparently those last minutes just haven't ticked away yet.

edited 5th Mar '18 9:25:00 AM by LSBK

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#80311: Mar 5th 2018 at 9:20:20 AM

It is all amusing indeed.

I guess Vegeta's little Saiyan wank speech only took a second or two am I right? tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#80312: Mar 5th 2018 at 9:23:52 AM

[up] Maybe we're seeing it from Vegeta's perspective and everyone just ignored his speech, like, he's still going "wub wub breaking limits wibble wibble" even as everyone keeps talking.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#80313: Mar 5th 2018 at 9:26:23 AM

I like to think they just forgot about the time limit and are just watching now for the sake of it lol.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#80314: Mar 5th 2018 at 9:30:37 AM

They really shouldn't though cause this is literally do or die.

Whoever loses is fucking screwed beyond belief.

[up][up] Heh I'd like that.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#80315: Mar 5th 2018 at 9:30:55 AM

Assuming they go with the currently obvious "twist" of Frieza actually winning, I could see them having him wish back all the universes and going "I want to rule over as much as possible when I take power" or something stupid like that.

That doesn't address the issue of why Zeno wouldn't just erase them all again, but, again, nothing really addresses that.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#80316: Mar 5th 2018 at 9:31:53 AM

We're still under the impression that people actually care about getting erased and that this isn't just a dick measuring contest?

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#80317: Mar 5th 2018 at 9:33:07 AM

I wonder if it's going to end with Goku teaching the Zeno brothers martial arts.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#80318: Mar 5th 2018 at 9:36:41 AM

True though honestly I expect this from U7. They are a selfish group of buggers only in it for their own pleasure.

Who I expected more from is the group of people whose literal day-job is giving a damn about people and the God who's supposed to give enough of a shit to hate evil.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#80320: Mar 5th 2018 at 11:30:31 AM

Why are you guys cynic about the wishes of U7?

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Fedetropes Call me Blast, not Fedetropes from Doomed universe Since: Dec, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Call me Blast, not Fedetropes
#80321: Mar 5th 2018 at 12:14:51 PM

17/Lapis was wishing for a boat, A BOAT.

¡PONLE QUE DIGA!:"¡HUMONGOSAURIO HASTA LA MUERTE!"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#80322: Mar 5th 2018 at 12:38:57 PM

I don't see the Super Dragon Balls having no limit as a problem since the original Dragon ball rules got so arbitrary over time as to why they couldn't solve problems and even then they still could. There are loads of ways they could be used to defeat the villains that the heroes just never go for.

The restrictions on the balls could have been tighter, but they're pretty simple and not at all arbitrary.

With the limits they do have, they could only be abused by really dumb weasel word wishes that wouldn't fit the characters/story at all. Whereas the Super balls can do things the characters WOULD explicitly ask for, because they've tried that in the past and been denied.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#80323: Mar 5th 2018 at 1:02:07 PM

"With the limits they do have, they could only be abused by really dumb weasel word wishes that wouldn't fit the characters/story at all."

Doesn't matter. It's already made 100% explicitly clear from the Cell arc onwards that characters will flat out ignore solutions given by the dragonballs. The super dragonballs don't really change that.

For example, even if they could simply wish a guy to die who was stronger than Kami, they won't post Cell. That they technically always can, say, wish for someone to be surrounded by microbes or wish a sun into the path of their spacecraft doesn't really change that either.

edited 5th Mar '18 1:04:27 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#80324: Mar 5th 2018 at 3:02:14 PM

Jiren is actually really clever not to knock Freeza out of the fight, since the letter presence warps time immensely.

FinalMachine Ultimate weapon Since: Nov, 2017 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Ultimate weapon
#80325: Mar 5th 2018 at 3:19:46 PM

[up] That might be the funniest thing I've read this week.


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