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Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#79376: Feb 20th 2018 at 5:18:32 AM

Same, but it's a symptom of a larger problem I've had with Super: everything our heroes ever did, ever fought against, was essentially made trivial.

Freeza blew up Planet Vegeta? Oh well, Beerus was going to do it anyway. Elder Kai was sealed by an ancient enemy? That was actually Beerus. All the gods have important roles in the cosmic hierarchy? Beerus and Whis supercede them. Cell wants to blow up the universe? The universe is larger than Earth, the solar system, and the gods we've met - in fact Cell never would have gotten past Beerus or Whis. Buu blew up the Earth? Well Beerus nearly did the same thing. Buu terrorized the universe? Zeno could have just blown up said universe and ended the problem.

The Super Saiyan forms became more and more powerful over the series? Well all they really needed to do was put 7 Saiyans together and pray really hard, and Goku would have been stronger than Buu, Cell, and Freeza combined.

I'd be fine with the Angels existing maybe, but Super has constantly introduced new concepts that made the old ones moot. So Last Season has never hit a franchise I like this hard.

If the Super Dragonballs have limits, you could still reconcile it with Vegeta's desire to restore universes. It's established the Dragonballs take more effort in killing someone than reviving them. You can't kill anyone stronger than the guy who made them, but you can wish back upwards of planets as seen in the Buu Saga. It stands to reason it is easier for the Super Dragonballs to wish back seven universes than it is to kill everyone in the remaining five

  • Black: Filthy wish dragon, I was going to wish for the body of Son Goku. But then I realized, Goku is only the strongest warrior in Universe 7 and their mortal level is, like, heh, I mean, it's shit, second from the bottom lets be real. So I want you to Google THE STRONGEST WARRIOR IN ALL OF THE UNIVERSES and give me THEIR body.
  • -receives Jiren's body, Zamasu wins the Black arc-
  • —-
  • Jiren Black: Filthy wish dragon, I would like for you to kill every mortal in the universe.
  • Super Shenron: I cannot do this. There are mortals that exceed the power of my creator.
  • Jiren Black: You're telling me that you're not unlimited in power then? -thinks- Okay dragon, I wish for ''you to become powerful enough to grant the wish I just asked. I'll just recollect your balls later.
  • Super Shenron: I cannot-
  • Jiren Black: Look are you an unlimited wish dragon or not!?
  • —-
  • Jiren Black: Just do it man, it gun be good.
  • Zamasu: Hrh-hrm. Uh, filthy... w... wish dragon. I wish for, ah, erm, if its not too much to ask, I'd like a bomb with enough explosive yield to effectively, and gradually kill off every non-deity in the universe.
  • Super Shenron: I cannot grant this wish. Killing people on that scale exceeds my creator's power?
  • Zamasu: Um, is your creator... they must still be alive since you're here right?
  • Super Shenron: That is correct.
  • Jiren Black: Then we wish for your creator to become so powerful that your limit on "kill-wishes" is increased so that you can kill virtually anyone!
  • Super Shenron: Your wish has been granted.
  • Jiren Black: Annnnnd... it's over. We win. -flashes Time Bling- now we just travel in time, wish for near omnicide followed shortly by the death of this dragon's creator.

edited 20th Feb '18 5:32:13 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#79377: Feb 20th 2018 at 5:28:39 AM

On a different note, Team Zamasu enters the Tournament of Power.

edited 20th Feb '18 5:28:55 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#79378: Feb 20th 2018 at 5:50:52 AM

[up]x4 &x3 Yeah I also dislike the concept of the Super Balls for these reasons

edited 20th Feb '18 5:51:24 AM by Saiga

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#79379: Feb 20th 2018 at 7:08:40 AM

The Super Dragon Balls literally have no reason to exist outside of forcing a title drop.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#79380: Feb 20th 2018 at 7:30:01 AM

They're basically shoehorned into every arc, but they're not the main focus. More like afterthoughts.

Kinda like some characters who are included in the series. Business as usual to me.

it's a symptom of a larger problem I've had with Super: everything our heroes ever did, ever fought against, was essentially made trivial. Freeza blew up Planet Vegeta? Oh well, Beerus was going to do it anyway. Elder Kai was sealed by an ancient enemy? That was actually Beerus. All the gods have important roles in the cosmic hierarchy? Beerus and Whis supercede them. Cell wants to blow up the universe? The universe is larger than Earth, the solar system, and the gods we've met - in fact Cell never would have gotten past Beerus or Whis. Buu blew up the Earth? Well Beerus nearly did the same thing. Buu terrorized the universe? Zeno could have just blown up said universe and ended the problem. The Super Saiyan forms became more and more powerful over the series? Well all they really needed to do was put 7 Saiyans together and pray really hard, and Goku would have been stronger than Buu, Cell, and Freeza combined.

Once again, business as usual.

Super has constantly introduced new concepts that made the old ones moot. So Last Season has never hit a franchise I like this hard.

I suppose not, but it's kinda always been a thing. Hell, Remember when the super attack Goku used to defeat King Piccolo was easily dodged by Mr. Popo, rendering it useless? And this was mere hours after he used it.

And lets not forget Cyborg Tao Pai pai.

edited 20th Feb '18 7:30:44 AM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#79381: Feb 20th 2018 at 12:44:39 PM

I've always felt that the Saiyans made the Earth-based conflict of the previous arcs kind of pointless. It's just something that happens in Dragon Ball, and it's been happening since long before Super.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#79382: Feb 20th 2018 at 12:48:52 PM

I don't really see that as making it pointless. Yeah, if the villains one they'd be killed by the Saiyans but they would still suceed in killing the heroes so stopping them is still meaningful. And those conflicts helped prepare the heroes for fture conflict.

Same with most of those Super examples - you still had to achieve what you did to be able to survive the next thing to come along.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#79383: Feb 20th 2018 at 1:46:51 PM

Oddly enough, the cover for the Super manga, volume 5 has Rage Trunks with the Spirit Bomb Sword on it, despite the fact that neither are in the manga.

Toyotarou thinks that King Chappa trained Uub.

edited 20th Feb '18 2:00:56 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#79384: Feb 20th 2018 at 2:44:57 PM

That's actually pretty cool. I'd be ok with that.

Heh, I bet Chapa got a bad case of Déjà Vu while training Uub though.cool

One Strip! One Strip!
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#79385: Feb 20th 2018 at 2:48:06 PM

Yeah, that's actually quite cool. Some other people mentioned Namu, which would also be cool.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#79386: Feb 20th 2018 at 3:46:23 PM

Huh that be a cool callback.

Also behold my brothers the biggest lie in all of Dragon Ball:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hvypF_RftE

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
agent-trunks IHE from Every-where, but there Since: Apr, 2015
IHE
#79387: Feb 20th 2018 at 7:08:23 PM

[up]X 4 Eh, whatever sells more for them

[up] It's really that hard to believe that they're strong enough to break it though? Of course, El Grande Padre lying is the 1st hint of his villainous deeds!

RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#79388: Feb 20th 2018 at 9:46:27 PM

[up][up] It's the second biggest lie in Dragonball. The biggest is that Goku vs Frieza took five minutes

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#79389: Feb 20th 2018 at 11:14:36 PM

How about "the ToP will only last 48 minutes?"

edited 20th Feb '18 11:14:50 PM by Zeromaeus

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#79390: Feb 20th 2018 at 11:33:37 PM

That's a very specific number too...

Mchomolo...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#79391: Feb 20th 2018 at 11:55:57 PM

How long was Goku vs Freeza, after the "five minutes" mark? The Tournament of Power has averaged about 1-3 minutes per episode, with the exception of the Special which was like 12 in-universe minutes long.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#79392: Feb 21st 2018 at 12:24:54 AM

Isn't that dependent on how fast you read through the manga?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#79393: Feb 21st 2018 at 12:32:11 AM

I was speaking about the original anime, since that criticism is mostly about how the anime padded that fight to hell and back.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#79394: Feb 21st 2018 at 1:16:48 AM

According to an urban dictionary it takes exactly 7 episodes for the planet (dying namek) to explode after that line...

3h 30min or something like that.

edited 21st Feb '18 1:17:34 AM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#79395: Feb 21st 2018 at 2:58:57 AM

So yeah, the destruction of Namek is numerically worse, since less in-universe time passes per episode than in the Tournament of Power.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#79396: Feb 21st 2018 at 3:06:51 AM

It's not just Kachi Katchin being easily broken. Why does the metal behave like rock?

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#79397: Feb 21st 2018 at 6:16:24 AM

Most things we think of as "rock" has plenty of metal in its composition. Meteorite Iron and the like, but pretty much EVERYTHING that isn't silicon-based is a metalic compound. Hell, table salt is a metallic compound.

Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#79398: Feb 21st 2018 at 6:54:44 AM

[up]Sure, but they referred to it as a metal, not as a rock that happened to have metals in its molecular make-up.

Honestly, I kind of forgot about that metal bit in the first place, and just assumed it was all rock after the variety of Hakaishin "demonstrated" it.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#79399: Feb 21st 2018 at 6:57:02 AM

New chapter is out on Viz's website.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#79400: Feb 21st 2018 at 9:29:22 AM

Wow. Quite a few dudes who lasted some time in the tournament in the anime are already out, or just out in a slightly different order.

On the other hand, a few characters who went out earlier are still in (Lilibeu, who was eliminated first in the anime, is still in).

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