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Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#79351: Feb 19th 2018 at 10:38:10 PM

Zamasu is very in love with himself, but he gave us some quality memes, so I can forgive him for that.

A sillier question is why didn't Zamasu just use the Super Dragon Balls to wish all of the mortals dead and save himself all of the trouble?

Because it's his duty to correct the mistake of the gods due to the higher perspective from which he views the world and blahblahblah [self-indulgent ranting].

edited 19th Feb '18 10:40:19 PM by Hobgoblin

RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#79352: Feb 20th 2018 at 12:13:19 AM

If the Super Dragonballs have limits, you could still reconcile it with Vegeta's desire to restore universes. It's established the Dragonballs take more effort in killing someone than reviving them. You can't kill anyone stronger than the guy who made them, but you can wish back upwards of planets as seen in the Buu Saga. It stands to reason it is easier for the Super Dragonballs to wish back seven universes than it is to kill everyone in the remaining five

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#79353: Feb 20th 2018 at 12:20:04 AM

A sillier question is why didn't Zamasu just use the Super Dragon Balls to wish all of the mortals dead and save himself all of the trouble?

Why not wish for omnipotence? They can grant any wish after all....with omnipotence, he could do whatever he wanted whenever he wanted for eternity if he so desired.

Unless, of course, the Super Dragon Balls can't do that....in which case I'd call that false advertising...

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#79354: Feb 20th 2018 at 12:21:43 AM

Really underlies the stupidity of limitless wish orbs.

Like can I wish myself greater than Zeno?

Seriously that is a legitimate question that needs answering cause if true then why not right?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#79355: Feb 20th 2018 at 12:22:50 AM

The Super balls were a mistake

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#79356: Feb 20th 2018 at 12:26:54 AM

They should be inactive for 1000 years...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#79357: Feb 20th 2018 at 12:27:36 AM

[up][up] They really are.

They are an unnecessary plot device brought into existence purely for blind serial escalation & the desire to put the word super onto something.

The fact they aren't even particularly hard to get hurts more. Champa was a moron but he still gathered 6 with Vados' help & Zamasu who is smart managed to gather them all twice due to simply being patient enough to make the journey.

[up] Oh crap there only deactivated for a year right?

edited 20th Feb '18 12:28:31 AM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#79358: Feb 20th 2018 at 12:33:29 AM

Freeza certainly seems to think he can use them to rule over all the other gods, so maybe they can do that.

I think it's a bit of a matter of tradition. Barring the Tenkaichi Budokais, the Dragon Balls have been used in every single arc of the franchise, so it makes sense to introduce a new set of Balls to be the centerpoint of the new series. It's called Dragon Ball, it'd be pretty silly if Dragon Balls weren't part of the plot.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#79359: Feb 20th 2018 at 12:34:41 AM

[up][up]Yeah, otherwise they couldn't really be a prize in this rumble royal.

Something so powerful should always have such a limitation.

edited 20th Feb '18 12:45:40 AM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#79360: Feb 20th 2018 at 12:37:56 AM

How different would Dragon Ball be if everyone in the multiverse had stands instead of powerlevels, like how would that effect the god hierarchy?

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#79361: Feb 20th 2018 at 12:41:08 AM

Honestly, it doesn't really matter if they're part of the plot by this stage. Even the Super balls aren't so important to justify the title being Dragon Ball. Much less the tournament arcs where they don't even come up.

Just roll with the fact that the title is unique enough to be identifiable, and it has served its purpose.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#79362: Feb 20th 2018 at 12:47:25 AM

They're not ignored enough for "Dragon Ball" to be an Artifact Title...

If only.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#79363: Feb 20th 2018 at 12:50:39 AM

The problem is the limitless wishes with no actual drawbacks.

If they weren't limitless or had actual legitimate drawbacks to balance out the wishes then there'd be less of a problem.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#79364: Feb 20th 2018 at 1:07:19 AM

They've been pretty important to the plots of the arcs they're in, with the exception of mid-late Z, where they pretty much only serve to clean up the corpses afterwards.

Hunt for the Dragon Balls: It's literally about hunting for the Dragon Balls, they are the entire and sole motivation of this arc.

Red Ribbon Army: The arc is driven by Goku looking for the Dragon Balls, first to find the 4-Star Ball for sentimental reasons, then to find all of them and resurrect Bora.

Demon King Piccolo: The Dragon Balls are the focus of King Piccolo's motivation at first to get young again, and he kills Shenron, leading to a whole 'nother subplot where we learn about Shenron's origin.

Saiyan: The Dragon Balls are used to resurrect Goku, and they're the main reason Vegeta and Nappa are even at Earth.

Namek: Everyone wants the Dragon Balls here, the heroes to resurrect their dead friends and the villains to become immortal.

Cell: Quite a bit of drama is made of Piccolo fusing with Kami and rendering the Balls inert. Not having them is also the reason the Future Timeline is so shit. In the end, they're just used to clean up Cell's casualties.

Buu: They're mainly just used to clean up Buu's kills, though there's a little drama made from wasting a wish on reviving Vegeta's kills.

Beerus: Shenron explains what the Super Saiyan God is. It's a small role, but an important one.

Freeza: They're the whole reason why he's back, and they kick-start the plot.

U6: The Super Dragon Balls are the prize for the winning team. In the end, they're used to give Champa his own Earth, what he wanted all along (which has yet to be explored, by the way).

Future Trunks: The Super Dragon Balls are the entire reason why Black is Goku and Zamasu is immortal. There'd be no plot without them.

Universal Survival Saga: The Super Dragon Balls are a reward for the best fighter, and much is made of the competitors talking about what their wish is going to be. They're probably going to be used to bring back the erased universes, but we'll just have to wait and see.

Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#79365: Feb 20th 2018 at 1:09:30 AM

Presumably having the speak the language of the gods and be able to travel the multiverse are the major deterrents for the vast majority of people.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#79366: Feb 20th 2018 at 1:42:43 AM

[up][up] Those roles really aren't that important, especially explaining Super Saiyan God.

Even in arcs like the Namek arc, there are more important things than pursuing the Dragon Balls.

But more specifically, for Super... the wish to revive Freeza merely facilitates the plot, and they're irrelevant for the rest of it.

For U 6, the Super Dragon Balls are meaningless for our protagonists and only matter to Champa who instigated the whole thing. Even if Champa got them, Goku points out they'd just reverse the outcome. What really matters is the conflict between Champa and Beerus, which is based on pride, and the interactions between the fighters, none of which give a shit about the Balls.

For Black, they're just an instrument of his plot. And they're used off-screen. There'd be no plot without a lot of things. That doesn't make them appropriate to use as the title.

Survival Saga, most people haven't expressed much desire for the Balls or only want them to avoid the consequences of the arc's ACTUAL motivator: universal erasure. That really overshadows the Super Balls, and rightfully so.

Sure, the balls have had a presence all over the place, but the series isn't actually ABOUT them overall. That went out of the window with the second story arc, when Toriyama wanted a deliberate shift in the story.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#79367: Feb 20th 2018 at 2:12:08 AM

I didn't say "the Dragon Balls are the most important thing in every arc they're in", I said, "the Dragon Balls have had some degrees of importance in every arc they're in".

Shenron explaining Super Saiyan God was important because no-one else could have done it. The whole plot revolves around Beerus investigating a prophetic dream he had about something that might exist. Something which is a new concept that none of our main characters know about. Shenron explaining it is the only logical way to exposit the form.

The Namek arc is mainly about playing keep-away with the Dragon Balls. Staying alive is obviously important, but keeping Freeza and Vegeta from having immortality is priority number 2 for most of the arc. Actually beating Freeza in a fight doesn't become top priority for anyone aside from Goku until the fight with Freeza begins.

The thing that facilitates the plot is very important to the plot because, without it, there would be no plot. You literally cannot have 'F' or the Future Trunks arc without the Dragon Balls. Just because the arc doesn't revolve around getting them again doesn't mean that they aren't still a major plot point in the arc in the first place.

Champa actually cared much more about getting U7's Earth than the Dragon Balls. That whole arc was mostly just a laid-back tournament to have fun and meet new characters, the Super Dragon Balls were important in as much as they were really cool and interesting new things.

Actually, in the Survival Saga, only one character has outright stated their desire to use the Super Dragon Balls to reverse the consequences of the tournament, and that's Vegeta. 17 wanted a boat, Ribrianne wanted to be a goddess, Goku doesn't know what he wants, Freeza wants to subjugate all of the gods, Jiren probably wants his family back. I agree that Universal Erasure is the main motivator, and it should be, but the wish prize for the best fighter is still a good secondary motivator.

I'm not saying the series is still about the Dragon Balls, it's only actually been about the Dragon Balls for 2 or 3 arcs. I am saying that Toriyama has and is still making a concerted effort to keep them present and give them some degrees of importance in the story.

edited 20th Feb '18 2:12:45 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#79368: Feb 20th 2018 at 2:17:18 AM

My original point was that the series isn't about the Dragon Balls and they're not important enough to justify the title, so that shouldn't be an argument to introduce a set of new balls just to keep using them.

Also I disagree with the idea that Toriyama is making an effort to include them. Seems more like they just enable the other ideas he has.

edited 20th Feb '18 2:19:58 AM by Saiga

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#79369: Feb 20th 2018 at 2:22:58 AM

Yeah, I guess this conversation hasn't really gone anywhere productive. I'm sure it went like this:

"Dragon Ball Super!"

"Why is it called that? Are there Super Dragon Balls?"

"No, it's like Super Saiyan, you know?"

"Why not just have Super Dragon Balls? It'd be a better way to explain the title."

"Fine, whatever. Let's put Super Dragon Balls in the script."

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#79370: Feb 20th 2018 at 2:22:58 AM

If the series was just the 1st arc, then the title would make sense...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#79371: Feb 20th 2018 at 3:45:51 AM

So Dragon Ball is an Artifact Title?

"Mai waifu."
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#79372: Feb 20th 2018 at 3:50:59 AM

Nah, they aren't ignored enough...even if the series isn't about searching for them.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#79373: Feb 20th 2018 at 4:23:26 AM

They're basically shoehorned into every arc, but they're not the main focus. More like afterthoughts.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#79374: Feb 20th 2018 at 5:02:28 AM

The Super Dragon Balls really conceptually bother me

I don't like that apparently the namekians were guilty of copyright infringement this whole time

edited 20th Feb '18 5:02:57 AM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#79375: Feb 20th 2018 at 5:08:35 AM

The Super balls don't even expand the lore in a interesting way either. We're never going to meet Zalama or learn why he made them at all, so we're never going to learn why Namekians can make their own sets instead of some other race.


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