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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#79251: Feb 19th 2018 at 5:54:33 PM

That doesn't fit the fight at all. Vegeta sensed that Goku was stronger than him, which is what pissed him off

Kaio-ken isn't relevant in a fight between Vegeta and Goku.

Also, work smarter, not harder. Goku was able to one-shot Yakon with 2, so he did. He actually already demonstrated that he could find Yakon (even without ki sensing, which is why Solar Flare x100 is stupid) and didn't even need Super Saiyan to fight him, he just did that for convenience.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#79252: Feb 19th 2018 at 5:54:45 PM

Sigh....

It's really dumb because when your enemy has an ability to devour energy giving them energy is not - or should not be - a good strategy.

This would at least make the fight stand out as interesting - also, Goku being able to defeat his opponent with a weaker form than the one Vegeta used would logically make Vegeta more jealous.

edited 19th Feb '18 5:58:26 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#79253: Feb 19th 2018 at 5:55:06 PM

Remember most of Sigil's complaints center around the power scale, so his preferences are based around de-emphasizing it.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#79254: Feb 19th 2018 at 5:56:23 PM

Sigh...

and unless you're working under the impression the enemy won't have limits and is power-up from it, neither of which seemed to be the case, exploiting that limit when you'll clearly have way more power left over isn't stupid.

[up]I mean, then they shouldn't come up with "solutions", that still give the enemy what they want.

edited 19th Feb '18 5:57:12 PM by LSBK

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#79255: Feb 19th 2018 at 5:57:17 PM

That.... that is specifically what we were discussing. Interesting abilities that didn't relate to power levels. I didn't start this conversation. I merely brought up a fight from DBZ as an example.

Also, Goku had no way of knowing his enemy had a limit. Yes, he did have one, but if he didn't all Goku would have done is waste a lot of effort and make him stronger.

Heck, if Goku wanted to try that, why didn't he fire off a bunch of Solar Flares?

edited 19th Feb '18 5:59:29 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#79256: Feb 19th 2018 at 5:59:21 PM

The Kaioken does relate to power, and there's no reason to assume that Yakon couldn't eat its aura either. That's why including it doesn't make sense as a part of the solution to the thing you're complaining about.

And why should Goku assume Yakon didn't have a limit, or that he wouldn't be able to make him reach it with easy? Nothing about how that battle had been going at that point warranted thinking either of those things.

edited 19th Feb '18 6:00:52 PM by LSBK

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#79257: Feb 19th 2018 at 6:00:49 PM

Okay, maybe I have Yakon wrong, but the specific power he describes is the ability to eat light, so I'm assuming auras that don't produce light he can't eat.

Also, when formulating a strategy, you don't assume limitations that you have no way of knowing are there.

edited 19th Feb '18 6:01:43 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#79258: Feb 19th 2018 at 6:01:23 PM

Why are you assuming any of the auras don't produce light is my question.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#79259: Feb 19th 2018 at 6:02:18 PM

Because Yakon only starts sucking away when Goku goes SSJ? Characters are always producing some sort of aura by Z, it's usually a sort of blank white one unless they're using a transformation.

edited 19th Feb '18 6:03:52 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#79260: Feb 19th 2018 at 6:03:22 PM

I get you Sigil. I've wondered if the Power scale got too high as well (and have complained about it myself, mostly due to how it meant pushing other characters out)

That being said, it is what it is. There's not much else to say about it.

One Strip! One Strip!
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#79261: Feb 19th 2018 at 6:03:25 PM

The fight went that way because it's the Buu saga and Toriyama liked drawing goofy fights.

Open wide Vegeta.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#79262: Feb 19th 2018 at 6:03:34 PM

Yakon EATS light, he soesnt powerup. And overeating is athing.

It takes Goku two seconds to test 2 at no risk to him, so it's a no brainer

Your idea does not fit Vegeta's motivation - Kaio-ken is irrelevant in their fight

Also Goku isnt ASSUMING a limit, he's testing it

edited 19th Feb '18 6:06:57 PM by Saiga

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#79263: Feb 19th 2018 at 6:05:52 PM

... huh

I forgot Vegeta beat Pui Pui in his base state. You'll forgive me, it's probably the single most forgettable fight in Z.

Either way, Goku should have tried the solar flare. It produces more light, with less of an energy cost.

edited 19th Feb '18 6:06:42 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#79264: Feb 19th 2018 at 6:06:59 PM

Yakon blowing up from underestimating Goku's energy is at least consistent with Babidi's initial thoughts on the group.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#79265: Feb 19th 2018 at 6:07:33 PM

Two unsubstantiated assumptions.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#79266: Feb 19th 2018 at 6:09:02 PM

You're right, it is an assumption. I assume, because people aren't blinded by the aura whenever someone goes SSJ that it doesn't produce as much light. I also assume, given that Tien was able to perform it at the 22nd Budokai and that it isn't a technique that ever needs more power put into it than at that point, that it is significantly less taxing than going into Super Saiyan.

Assumptions. But far from unsubstantiated assumptions.

edited 19th Feb '18 6:14:52 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#79267: Feb 19th 2018 at 6:14:28 PM

I am now curious as to how the Solar Flare would have affected Yakon now.

I mean, an attack so bright it blinds everyone might have been able to produce quite a lot of light. Maybe more than even a Super Saiyan aura.

Guess we'll never know however, and it doesn't really matter anyway.

One Strip! One Strip!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#79268: Feb 19th 2018 at 6:16:58 PM

And yet, Goku specifically mastered Super Saiyan to make it feel natural, and only briefly flashed 2 while Yakon was sucking him. Can't really compare that.

Furthermore, Solar Flare may be blinding, but the 1 - 2 chang in light seems to be based on power - Yakon eating light already isn't scientific, I wouldn't assume it is measured by brightness when they act like there is real 'weight' behind it.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#79269: Feb 19th 2018 at 6:18:45 PM

So Yakon absorbs the energy with the light... but it doesn't make him stronger. Hmm. How consistent. Never change, DB.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#79270: Feb 19th 2018 at 6:20:27 PM

That's not what he's doing. He's eating it.

That's like saying if Cell can absorb people for power then it's inconsistent that Goku can't eat people for power.

Yakon simply doesn't have that ability.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#79271: Feb 19th 2018 at 6:20:39 PM

Are we really complaining about the fucking Yakon fight?

Like really?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#79272: Feb 19th 2018 at 6:22:44 PM

It's easy to assume that eating energy will be the same as getting more powerful from doing so, but that's not always going to be the case.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#79273: Feb 19th 2018 at 6:23:34 PM

I'm just using it as an example of an area where DB could have had an interesting fight but instead it was a complete waste because a potentially interesting ability is neutered by a character just powering up.

Like Hit's.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#79274: Feb 19th 2018 at 6:26:40 PM

The solution you proposed doesn't sound interesting at all, does not fit the direction of Vegeta's portrayal nor the way Babidi underestimated the team.

Plus, the Yakon fight the way it was was brief and funny. If he just beat Yakon up it'd be too similar to the Pui Pui fight.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#79275: Feb 19th 2018 at 6:27:27 PM

[up][up][up]Something like that seems like it would've been stated...not just happening and ignored.

edited 19th Feb '18 6:27:58 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.

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