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RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#78526: Feb 12th 2018 at 5:28:56 PM

Anyone think the Grand Priest is biased towards Universe 11? It's the universe competing with the highest average mortal level, and twice he's stretched the rules to keep their ace in.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#78527: Feb 12th 2018 at 5:31:38 PM

At least for 17 he didn't stretch the rules; if 17 really did blow himself up, there really is no fair way to blame that on Jiren beyond "He was fighting Jiren so if he hadn't been so strong, he wouldn't have done it" which isn't particularly convincing.

The time they thought Goku died wasn't particularly stretched either. Goku's the one who made the attack, Jiren simply repelled it.

edited 12th Feb '18 5:32:00 PM by LSBK

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#78528: Feb 12th 2018 at 5:32:43 PM

The negative: …It kinda feels like a rehash of the Cell and Buu sagas, except the villain has slightly more complex motivations − his hatred for mortals feels a bit forced though, considering we've never seen humanity at war in the Dragon Ball universe. Like, I can get getting rid of super violent and dangerous peoples, but the most evil humans we had seen on DB Earth were bankrobbers… not much of a case for extermination.

We've never seen them at war true. But there was the Red Ribbon Army, referred to as, and I quote, the most evil army in the world.

...I think. I'm near positive they were called that.

There was also Tao Pai Pai, who was pretty evil (and still is honestly).

But yeah, for the most part, outside of the occasional mugger, Earth is more known for being victimized by evil rather than committing it on any truly grand scale.

Oh wait. I forgot Dr. Gero, and future Android 17 and 18. They were pretty evil.

One Strip! One Strip!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#78529: Feb 12th 2018 at 5:55:48 PM

Robots Gero who builds many evil artificial humans is an outlier and should not be counted

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#78530: Feb 12th 2018 at 5:58:29 PM

Fair enough.

Ultimately, humanity is not really all that evil in Dragonball.

You, except for when Toriyama wants them to be, ala those two jerks who created Evil Buu.

One Strip! One Strip!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#78531: Feb 12th 2018 at 7:00:44 PM

I once heard Zamasu described as a lamer Sensui, and it's a pretty apt comparison.

DarkHunter from New Mexico Since: Jan, 2001
#78532: Feb 12th 2018 at 7:05:08 PM

Zamasu's hatred of mortals is given slightly more justification in the anime, where he observes the Babari race in his own universe never progressing morally, and gets insulted when Goku, a mere mortal, dares to not only challenge Zamasu to a fight, but actually do well against him.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#78533: Feb 12th 2018 at 7:11:45 PM

And quite frankly even Sensui wasn't exactly someone to write home about.

Also, that more or less happens in the manga as well.

edited 12th Feb '18 7:16:17 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#78534: Feb 12th 2018 at 7:28:31 PM

It's the classic problem where a fictional universe is sanitized of real-world vices such as war, bigotry, ect. yet a character's motivation implicitly hinges on the existence of those vices, creating a sort of Informed Flaw applied to the setting as a whole.

edited 12th Feb '18 7:33:15 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#78535: Feb 12th 2018 at 8:24:09 PM

[up]Like Reality, Unless Noted plays a huge part. Just because something (like war) isn't depicted in the series doesn't mean it never happens.

edited 12th Feb '18 8:24:56 PM by MightyMatilda

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#78536: Feb 12th 2018 at 8:28:57 PM

I'm aware of that, it just creates problems with Show, Don't Tell.

Zamasu is far from the worst case, though. If he had been introduced an arc earlier, and we got to see more of the depravity lurking within the mortals of Universe 10 beyond one planet of barbarian dinosaur dudes, it'd be a pretty good, solid ideological backstory.

edited 12th Feb '18 8:33:24 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#78537: Feb 12th 2018 at 8:35:35 PM

Anyone think the Grand Priest is biased towards Universe 11?

Absolutely not. I'd say the only "rules stretching" that happened was Jiren getting almost-disqualified for throwing the Spirit Bomb back at Goku (should it had killed him), but I kind of agree with the logic there. I can also see arguments from the other side too.

Universe 11's biggest problem was incompetence really. No need to be biased for them when they're hindering themselves...

Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#78538: Feb 12th 2018 at 11:34:37 PM

To be honest if any universe got preferential treatment it was Universe 7. Roshi totally should've been disqualified. [lol]

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#78539: Feb 12th 2018 at 11:52:17 PM

It was made pretty explicit that the Zeno have absolute authority to screw the rules if breaking them was sufficiently cool enough, which I actually really like, since it allows the writers to give themselves limitations for the plot but also break those limitations for Rule of Cool whenever they feel like it.

edited 12th Feb '18 11:52:50 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#78540: Feb 13th 2018 at 12:13:21 AM

How is that a good thing? If you're just to ignore them whenever convenient, why add it in at all?

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#78541: Feb 13th 2018 at 12:15:52 AM

Especially if your not even gonna be clever about it.

We haven't seen Zeno say its cool so its alright in a while.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#78542: Feb 13th 2018 at 12:54:02 AM

Yeah that just sounds like really tacky, lazy writing.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#78543: Feb 13th 2018 at 12:55:40 AM

I kind of wish they had gone even further with Jiren's backstory, like: "and then Jiren joined the Pride Troopers, a team of superheroes led by Toppo. The Pride Troopers saved many lives throughout the galaxy, until one day they came across that same Evil-Doer... who once again killed all of them. Jiren and Toppo were the only survivors. They built the Pride Troopers back up with new members, such as Kahseral and Dyspo, and Jiren has been searching for the Evil-Doer ever since."

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#78544: Feb 13th 2018 at 2:18:04 AM

The issue with Jiren's backstory is in the words of one commenter I saw "Sounds like a basic ass Marvel/DC my parents were killed backstory" that is told in a boring-ass way.

Jiren has been hyped up for over 20 episodes, everything about him framed as this epic mystery as we wonder who & what he is. The backstory is way to generic for a guy with this much hype, sure hype backlash is a thing but this origin is just not sufficient. Sure it may have been better with a more exciting execution but the execution was lacking in all sense.

There's no catch, no hook, no gimmick, no....... mojo.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#78545: Feb 13th 2018 at 2:19:35 AM

i initially read that as no mayo

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#78546: Feb 13th 2018 at 2:22:57 AM

BTW its supposed to be sounded out as "moho" I'm assuming since the J has an H sound in Spanish.

Its a joke I just recalled from an episode of George Lopez & I figured it fit. tongue

edited 13th Feb '18 2:24:02 AM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#78547: Feb 13th 2018 at 2:27:48 AM

I was thinking it was an Austin Powers reference.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#78548: Feb 13th 2018 at 2:31:04 AM

That sounds too much like Toguro's backstory......with a mix of Sasuke's backstory.

"Mai waifu."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#78549: Feb 13th 2018 at 2:31:43 AM

I think Jiren's first group of allies also dying in battle against the same guy is unique enough to qualify as a catch. It's certainly not something I've seen before. The backstory we got feels like "Jiren's life, part 1", we never learned what happened to the Evil-Doer, what Jiren's relationship with the Pride Troopers is (like, did he form them or just join an already existing group?), or specifically what his wish is. I hope we get a "Part 2" flashback that addresses these points.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#78550: Feb 13th 2018 at 2:33:01 AM

[up][up] I also did get a Toguro's backstory vibe a tiny bit, just without the whole dynamic that made him interesting.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"

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