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BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#78276: Feb 10th 2018 at 10:54:39 PM

Can ya'll take this to the appropriate topic?

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#78277: Feb 10th 2018 at 10:55:28 PM

Nah, he's definitely not the big fight, Bakugo is. Deku says he'll beat both of them.

The fact that Deku doesn't get to even fight Bakugo shows that what happens doesn't line up with what Deku wants.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#78278: Feb 10th 2018 at 10:55:45 PM

[up][up]I'd prefer that or PM, actually.

[up][up][up]I'll say this, being really strong (even the strongest) doesn't make one the primary antagonist focus does. Todoroki does get a lot of focus, but that's not aimed in his role of "opposing the protagonist". Again, Deku isn't primarily focused on defeating him, therefore, he's not the "main antagonist".

edited 10th Feb '18 10:58:03 PM by LSBK

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#78279: Feb 10th 2018 at 10:58:13 PM

Yeah I would have preferred if Jiren wasn't a martial artist.

It a rather generic route really.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#78280: Feb 10th 2018 at 11:02:16 PM

I think we're all forgetting the big elephant in the room...

What happens when a person dies OUTSIDE of their universe?

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#78281: Feb 10th 2018 at 11:02:38 PM

The 22nd Budokai is my favorite tournament of the series and Goku vs Krillin is one of my favorite fights of the series, in large part because of how well Krillin does against him. Not sure why Saiga complains that there aren't many extra characters in the 22nd since the 23rd doesn't have any new characters and multiple recurring characters are taken out before the tournament even starts.

I'm really not seeing the problem with Jiren's backstory. It's a good backstory. It's not the one I expected him to have, and it could've used a bit more time to breathe, but having Jiren's group of heroes almost all be killed by the same guy is a creative and unique twist on the "bad guy killed my family" backstory. It'd be like if the Bat-Family were all also killed by Joe Chill. I kind of hope we get to see more of his backstory in the next few episodes since we never actually got answers to how he's as ludicrously strong as he is (aside from training really hard) and what exactly his wish is (it was implied that he wants to bring back his family and old hero team, but never outright stated).

Also, I like the dumb theories floating around that Evil Guy was Goku Black, somehow.

edited 10th Feb '18 11:05:50 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

DarkHunter from New Mexico Since: Jan, 2001
#78282: Feb 10th 2018 at 11:02:40 PM

[up]Nothing.

Literally.

edited 10th Feb '18 11:02:48 PM by DarkHunter

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#78283: Feb 10th 2018 at 11:03:51 PM

Since they're getting erased anyway...it doesn't matter.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#78284: Feb 10th 2018 at 11:07:50 PM

[up][up][up] I explained that the 23rd and 21st were different. The 23rd had a large enough cast that the entire bracket felt meaningful, and the 21st had enough room for extra characters that mattered more. The 22nd Budokai not only had two new characters to add, but also focused on the Crane vs Turtle conflict that the battles unrelated to these two schools did not stand out.

The 22nd didn't have the full line up of the 23rd, and didn't have the meaningful extras of the 21st. And I'm not saying those extras were great, but they made up enough of the roster that their presence feels natural and not extraneous.

edited 10th Feb '18 11:09:08 PM by Saiga

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#78285: Feb 10th 2018 at 11:10:04 PM

Well, there are only three battles totally unrelated to the Crane and Turtle rivalry, one of those battles is Turtle V Turtle and I think is pretty related to the thematic undertones of the 22nd as a whole, and the other two are Panputto (which is a complete waste) and Manwolf (which is comic relief).

Like, I don't dislike the 23rd, so it's hard for me to articulate why I prefer the 22nd in particular. I just think that the battles in the 22nd are the right mix of serious and silly for my Dragonball fix.

edited 10th Feb '18 11:11:50 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#78286: Feb 10th 2018 at 11:10:47 PM

I really should go back and watch/read all the tournaments of the series.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#78287: Feb 10th 2018 at 11:11:17 PM

6 out of 8 contestants being Crane or Turtle means that the remaining 2 feel much more filler than they do in the first tournament.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#78288: Feb 10th 2018 at 11:13:29 PM

Filler is okay in the first round. Not like Bacterian vs Krillin and Nam vs Ranfan were super important or fantastic fights.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#78289: Feb 10th 2018 at 11:14:01 PM

Like, I will give you that, but one of those fights only lasts about three pages. The other one is just comic relief.

Honestly, I think it just comes down to Roshi redeeming Tien. There's an actual character arc there so that his match with Goku is a capstone, not a talk-no-jutsu moment like it would be in another anime. With Piccolo Jr., he's too much of a retread of his dad at this point. I think that character arc combined with the strong thematic core of "what does martial arts do for someone" and "the passing of the torch" it really puts it above the 23rd which I don't think has a really strong thematic basis.

edited 10th Feb '18 11:16:20 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#78290: Feb 10th 2018 at 11:16:04 PM

Yeah but no, here's the thing, 17 didn't get erased, he died in a void with no afterlife. Like, even if Universe 7 wins, what happens then?

edited 10th Feb '18 11:16:26 PM by Rinsankajugin

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#78291: Feb 10th 2018 at 11:17:04 PM

[up] I dunno, if only there were some Macguffin this series had that could bring the dead back to life.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#78292: Feb 10th 2018 at 11:17:46 PM

I'm half-expecting 17 to not really be dead, and just buried under some rubble. Somehow.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#78293: Feb 10th 2018 at 11:18:41 PM

I still don't understand why Jiren doesn't just throw them off the ring.

The omega ki blast was so fucking unnecessary.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#78294: Feb 10th 2018 at 11:21:34 PM

Filler is okay in the first round. Not like Bacterian vs Krillin and Nam vs Ranfan were super important or fantastic fights

Never said they were. They just felt a lot more fitting and definitely weren't anywhere near as bad as Panpoot.

As for Ten's character arc yeah that's neat but Ten isn't really that interesting a character. I found the fights in the 23rd much more enjoyable, especially Kuririn's which is a big improvement over his fight with Goku.

GarnetRebeller96 Since: Nov, 2015
#78295: Feb 10th 2018 at 11:22:18 PM

Man, this thread went the way I expected it too.

LOL [lol].

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#78296: Feb 10th 2018 at 11:24:52 PM

Also, the other thing I remember getting annoyed by was how Goku didn't want to use the giant Kamehameha on Piccolo because he had swallowed the sealed Kami.... but if he killed Piccolo, Kami dies anyway (which I'm pretty sure was established in that same arc).

So there's a lot of confusion when it comes down to that final battle in the arc.

edited 10th Feb '18 11:25:44 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#78297: Feb 10th 2018 at 11:25:36 PM

Krillin's fight with Piccolo is pretty good, but his fight against Goku is much better. He uses all sorts of tricks on Goku and gains the upper hand a couple times for brief instances.

You know what would be a really fun technique to bring back? Goku's invisible back and forth step.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#78298: Feb 10th 2018 at 11:26:08 PM

That is one of the most hilarious things he does.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#78299: Feb 10th 2018 at 11:26:48 PM

Nah okay, but here's another thing. Will the Super Dragon Balls be used to wish back 17 from nothing, or will it be used to wish back the erased universes? I starting to think that Super might somehow end on a cliffhanger...

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#78300: Feb 10th 2018 at 11:28:30 PM

Can't they just wish back everybody who was killed in the tournament? Unless there's some arbitrary difference between the two.


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