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Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#78176: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:40:56 PM

It can't have been the bomb. They got their bombs wished out.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#78177: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:43:48 PM

[up] (3) All 3 attacking Jiren at once, Goku and Vegeta pressuring Jiren. It wasn't Vegetto fighting Zamasu but it was closer to an average fight in Z with the number of attack rushes and people getting smashed through things. Fewer interruptions, it seemed like. The only pauses in the action that rubbed me were Jiren ending his volcanic power-up, and Belmod stopping to explain Jiren's backstory.

Compared to the Toppo and Dyspo fights it was better than average. I'd put it behind Goku fighting Kefla and Jiren.

[up] So I'm told. Like I'm not saying it didn't happen. Heck, I forgot about it. But Gero breaking the tech tree once again and building a bomb that can cancel out god-level attacks, all in an effort to kill a far, far weaker mortal man is funnier.

[down] Fewer pauses in the action to jump to other battles and a lot more visible damage.

edited 10th Feb '18 8:50:26 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#78178: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:46:17 PM

[up] No way in Hell would I put this behind the Kefla fight. Far, far from it.

Also Goku & Vegeta have been pressuring Jiren several times for the past 5 episodes in nearly the exact same way so I don't see what this episode did better in that regard.

edited 10th Feb '18 8:46:29 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#78179: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:46:43 PM

I'm glad this episode made good use of the destroyed stage being a bunch of floating islands. I was disappointed when the last episode had none of that.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#78180: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:47:29 PM

I'd say the choreography was nothing to write home about. Chief example - when Jiren is attacked on three sides via ki blasts, does he do a sort of twist and deflect them into the next person along? Does he dodge them all effortlessly? Or does he stand there like a lemon and let his big number protect him? It's the last one, really, and I don't think it makes for good choreography.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#78181: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:48:50 PM

I really liked Vegeta punching Jiren up the side of the arena.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#78182: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:54:27 PM

So what are some of the best tournament arcs overall, not just in dragonball?

Maybe its through the fog of years but the Yu Yu Hakusho Dark Tournament was pretty good in terms of injuries and exhaustion and other things mattering and affecting battles.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#78183: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:56:10 PM

Dark Tournament is fucking amazing, near perfect for me... until....

...and I am practically tearing up to write this, legit not kidding.

The ending fucks up hard. The entire final battle and the epilogue are just.... aaaagh.

But yes, until that point, the Dark Tournament is really good in terms of stamina. One of my favourite bits is how Hiei has an arm messed up from his Dragon of the Darkness Flame for the first half. It also builds up the villains really well.

edited 10th Feb '18 8:57:49 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#78184: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:57:31 PM

I liked YYH when I first watched it but it really annoyed me how this early in the series it felt like nothing could truly challenge them without the deck being heavily stacked against them. Then there is an enormous gap between the threat level of the other participants and Team Toguro, the younger Toguro being obnoxiously over the top.

It's decent. I wouldn't call it one of the best chiefly because there isn't a lot I can compare it to.

edited 10th Feb '18 8:58:30 PM by Saiga

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#78185: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:58:40 PM

Well, right from the get-go it's established that Toguro's going to be the people they're going to have to watch out for in the long run.

I'll throw in the Chunin exams for being a pretty good tournament arc. There are a few stinkers in terms of fights (Sakura and Ino, obviously but also Sasuke versus Gaara which is a real, real shame) but overall it's quite decent and manages to juggle quite a few plotlines similtaneously quite well.

edited 10th Feb '18 8:59:59 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#78186: Feb 10th 2018 at 9:02:51 PM

Yeah... but that's a far cry from being as overpowered as Toguro was.

I was impressed by Toguro in the Yukina arc (whatever that's colloquially known as), enough so that he became the main inspiration for one of my OF characters. And then he just keeps... going, unnecessarily high.

It's a similar issue to Freeza - he can be the best of his empire without needing to be literally 1,000 times stronger than his strongest henchman (actually the final YYH arc has that really bad as well, now that I remember)

edit: As for the Chunin Exams, there are some noticeable logic breaks, mostly in the non-tournament portions because it's adapting the Hunter Exam to a setting where it doesn't make a great deal of sense.

edited 10th Feb '18 9:06:44 PM by Saiga

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#78187: Feb 10th 2018 at 9:04:34 PM

The final Toguro fight is really where it falls apart, honestly. Like, Yusuke walks in there, his battle aura is a fucking pheonix, you don't need to have more emotion based powerups. Just have them go at it. It's two episodes too long and after all the other great fights it's a massive letdown.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#78188: Feb 10th 2018 at 9:04:37 PM

Yea, Toguro was very interesting in his introduction...then it just got dumb lol.

What, we're talking about our favorite Tournament arcs? Can I say Hero Aca's Sports Festival?

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#78189: Feb 10th 2018 at 9:06:01 PM

good choreography

Well, the parts I liked:

EDIT -well pretty much all of these links are dead now :/-

What makes it work is that it's just fast. Gohan and Freeza fighting Dyspo was a much slower fight and I couldn't wait until it was over.

tournament arcs

There really aren't many from the anime that I've seen. Dark Tournament, Dragonball, Flame of Recca (which is more or less a copy of YYH and f'cks up even harder because the anime ended before the manga did and they rushed the conclusion). Flame of Recca, despite being a YYH clone, had a decent mix of comedy and drama.

HXH had a tournament arc of sorts... which was less a series of one-on-one bouts and more a series of trials. The final phase was a tournament though. It was kind of neat.

G-Gundam is technically a show with a Tournament Arc as its premise, but with giant robots and flamboyant competition. That was my favorite as a kid.

Finally, Zoids Bit Century Zero, more giant robot deathmatches with a far less developed cast.

Never, ever seen a tournament the scale of the Tournament of Power.

edited 10th Feb '18 9:41:16 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#78190: Feb 10th 2018 at 9:07:11 PM

[up][up]Was wondering when that would turn up...

The first two thirds are pretty good but it's undermined by the final third. Setting aside the Shinsou fight, which I consider pathetic, you also have the problem that Todoroki isn't charismatic enough to carry being the main antagonist for the arc on his shoulders.

edited 10th Feb '18 9:07:31 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#78191: Feb 10th 2018 at 9:07:13 PM

LMAO, 17 is trending on Twitter as we speak.

[up] Well, my informed opinion on that is...screw you, you're wrong :V

edited 10th Feb '18 9:07:44 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#78192: Feb 10th 2018 at 9:08:35 PM

Meh. I don't have a problem with the ending of the Dark Tournament like I do the ending of Chapter Black. Even if I did it's still the best tournament arc in any Shonen I've read or watched.

edited 10th Feb '18 9:08:47 PM by VeryMelon

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#78193: Feb 10th 2018 at 9:08:36 PM

Todoroki wasn't the antagonist of the arc.

edited 10th Feb '18 9:09:21 PM by LSBK

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#78194: Feb 10th 2018 at 9:08:37 PM

Damn, those copyright claims came fast

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#78195: Feb 10th 2018 at 9:09:14 PM

Todoroki really isn't an antagonist of that arc. Not even remotely.

That's one thing I like about the MHA tournament - there's no antagonist.

OG Dragon Ball probably has the least sloppy, genuine tournament arcs of any series I've read. I'm not saying they're great, but all the other examples I think of I can't really call 'the best' because of the glaring flaws they have or not really being genuine tournaments.

edited 10th Feb '18 9:10:30 PM by Saiga

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#78196: Feb 10th 2018 at 9:09:49 PM

Dark Tournament was good, 23rd Budokai was intense, and if nonviolent tournaments count I'll throw in a nod to Battle City as well.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#78197: Feb 10th 2018 at 9:09:53 PM

I was struggling to find a word. Perhaps "man to beat?". "Rival?"

Out of the DB tournaments I like the 22nd BT the most I think.

edited 10th Feb '18 9:10:30 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#78198: Feb 10th 2018 at 9:10:16 PM

Non-violent? But so many people got knocked on their asses by holograms

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#78199: Feb 10th 2018 at 9:10:47 PM

[up][up]I mean, he's one of those, but so was everyone. The arc was about fleshing him out, but he's hardly the only one to get focus.

edited 10th Feb '18 9:12:50 PM by LSBK

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#78200: Feb 10th 2018 at 9:12:26 PM

No, I mean he basically says to Deku "you're the other strongest guy in the class" and Bakugo gets really mad because he thinks he's being overlooked. There is a fight being set up there, in the structure. Todoroki is the guy to whom other people are getting worfed (like Cero).

edited 10th Feb '18 9:12:55 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"

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