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Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#78126: Feb 10th 2018 at 7:32:54 PM

Not to undercut 17 here, but I think it would had been more impactful to have Vegeta actually fully self destruct last week as price for getting Toppo eliminated. Especially since they're going to draw from the well again net week with the "Vegeta totally loves his family you guys!"

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#78127: Feb 10th 2018 at 7:34:15 PM

I bet the person who killed Jiren's parents is the Grand Priest.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#78129: Feb 10th 2018 at 7:35:38 PM

I bet it was A. Firebender.

Now he's even crossed universes.

edited 10th Feb '18 7:35:53 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#78130: Feb 10th 2018 at 7:36:02 PM

What does Jiren's backstory add to him?

He's not a foil to Goku with it, since Goku isn't all about friendship.

It doesn't add layers to his character, as I suspected all it did was tell us what happened to him rather than telling us something about him.

It means we can't speculate about his backstory, so having it be so weaksauce is actually worse than having no backstory at all.

Worst of all it's over so quickly it barely leaves any impression. You know that Spongebob Patrick meme? "Why don't we take all this wasted fight time... and use it to have a dedicated Jiren flashback episode where we get to see him training, learn his Ki attacks, go through tragedy etc."

Jiren's real tragedy is not living on a planet with Dragonballs where he could just wish his compatriots back.

edited 10th Feb '18 7:36:51 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#78131: Feb 10th 2018 at 7:36:47 PM

[up]x5 I mean, it'd be better just to not have Vegeta reference that self-destruct since it makes no sense.

But if they're going to do it, yeah he'd better well die and it spares us going through the same repetition with him in following episodes

edited 10th Feb '18 7:37:20 PM by Saiga

Deadpoolrocks Since: Sep, 2010
#78132: Feb 10th 2018 at 7:36:57 PM

it was goku who time traveled to kill jirens family so he would have a strong enemy.

[up]I agree. or not have vegeta do final explosion and just keep punching him because that seemed to work. it kinda takes some out of this ep considering its just the same thing as last time but negatively.

until 17 reapears in a beam of light as ultra instinct android 17

edited 10th Feb '18 7:38:58 PM by Deadpoolrocks

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#78133: Feb 10th 2018 at 7:38:18 PM

[up]Dammit, didn't we already go through this

edited 10th Feb '18 7:38:31 PM by hardcorefakes

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#78134: Feb 10th 2018 at 7:39:12 PM

17's sacrifice is already undercut by the fact Vegeta survived what should have been a suicide attack.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#78135: Feb 10th 2018 at 7:39:36 PM

The hilarious thing is, all this Vegeta time still isn't going to please dedicated Vegeta fans since Vegeta's still going to lose to someone Goku will beat.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Deadpoolrocks Since: Sep, 2010
#78136: Feb 10th 2018 at 7:40:42 PM

he was only one win away from tying goku too.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#78137: Feb 10th 2018 at 7:41:49 PM

I think Goku has scored several more epic wins than Vegeta has.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#78138: Feb 10th 2018 at 7:42:09 PM

17's actions remind me of a line from Bleach Abridged.

"I cancelled out your blast with my blast. Because that's how bombs work. That's why every country needs nukes. Because nukes + nukes equals no nukes."

edited 10th Feb '18 7:42:21 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#78139: Feb 10th 2018 at 7:42:47 PM

What does Jiren's backstory add to him?

It explains why he's such a dick to his own teammates.

Deadpoolrocks Since: Sep, 2010
#78140: Feb 10th 2018 at 7:44:23 PM

[up][up][up]I was going off the chart for eliminations and Goku is like 15 1/2 and Vegeta is 14 1/2

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#78141: Feb 10th 2018 at 7:45:41 PM

[up][up][up] Two blasts cancelling each other out goes back to Roshi vs Goku and it does make sense from the perspective of neither being able to overwhelm the other so they burn up their energy

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#78142: Feb 10th 2018 at 7:45:49 PM

Oh, I was thinking in terms of arc villains, from Z to now.

[up] The difference is that the Kamehamehas and associated attacks are directed energy while Jiren's attack and presumably 17's explosion are not.

Honestly, if I was writing this I would just have 17 overload himself and pour all that energy into a really big bubble around the attack to contain it.

edited 10th Feb '18 7:47:50 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#78143: Feb 10th 2018 at 7:45:59 PM

[up][up][up] Though Goku's were more visually amazing I believe.

I definitely liked the Kefla fight than the Toppo fight.

edited 10th Feb '18 7:46:16 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Deadpoolrocks Since: Sep, 2010
#78144: Feb 10th 2018 at 7:48:41 PM

oh im not saying goku's werent more important or better looking. just that vegeta fans would be upset because if he beat jiren hed tie with goku instead of 2nd. freiza is third. 17 was 4th.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#78145: Feb 10th 2018 at 7:49:56 PM

[up] Ah.

Right.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#78146: Feb 10th 2018 at 7:49:59 PM

I was considering in terms of arc villains Vegeta beating a guy Goku couldn't. Which is what Vegeta fans want and what they're never going to get.

Of course, a month or two ago we were speculating about it being Gohan and Goku as the finalists against Jiren, so...

edited 10th Feb '18 7:50:25 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#78147: Feb 10th 2018 at 7:51:50 PM

[up] Android 19. tongue

But yeah, those fans are setting themselves up for sour grapes.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#78148: Feb 10th 2018 at 7:52:11 PM

I liked the episode, 17 was really cool in it and I liked Jiren's backstory, even if it wasn't quite what I wanted from him. It did justify why he hasn't been showing emotion very much throughout the tournament. The fighting is getting repetitive, though, and Vegeta getting even more stamina out of nowhere is just bullshit by this point. Not the best episode, but it wasn't bad, either.

edited 10th Feb '18 7:53:48 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#78149: Feb 10th 2018 at 7:53:10 PM

[up][up][up]

People were speculating that based on the endings, which is laughable.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#78150: Feb 10th 2018 at 7:56:02 PM

[up] I think it's more that people were thinking that the TOP would have some sort of twist on the formula that didn't involve characters just getting removed in reverse order of power until Goku saves the day. But it's just turning out like clockwork (with the exception of 17 being a massive MVP) and unless Freeza is a big wild card it looks like it's going to play out as per standard right to the end.

People were hoping that anything would happen differently - Gohan, Vegeta, hell, Freeza, but it isn't looking like that.

edited 10th Feb '18 7:56:40 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"

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