Hit is an odd case, as it was the filler that fleshed him out. In the Tournament of Champa he was alright, but seeing him again, allowing the creators to have fun with the Tone Shift, made Hit really likable in my eyes.
But Jiren doesn't have that, as he has been frankly quite unlikeable in the Tournament, and we won't have filer with him later on. In the manga he is alright, because we see he has his heart in the right place.
Also, I can't remember any antagonist that was really good in their introductory arc, and is not until the next arc where they are really fleshed out. Piccolo is included. With the exception of Frieza, Majin Buu, Beerus and Goku Black (Anime), though.
edited 10th Feb '18 2:33:00 PM by Tomodachi
To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.It should be noted that, while Hit didn't get characterisation in the U6 tourney, him and Goku got a filler rematch which is where he gets fleshed out. The U6 tourney also lasted a fraction of the time of the TOP, so Hit being on the sidelines rather than the limelight isn't quite so egregious.
They've had loads and loads of opportunities to give Jiren more personality, and he won't be getting a rematch with Goku after the tournament because the series is ending. This is just too little, too late.
It's not impossible to characterise someone during a tourney, and I'm going to point to Tien, who was not only characterised but went through an entire character arc from asshole to not-quite-as-much-of-an-asshole in much, much less screentime than Jiren has had in the Super Anime.
Finally,
A sad anime flashback is not characterisation. It just tells you what happened to that person, not who they are. It can be used as a medium for characterisation, but it is far, far from a guarantee. With Hit, we didn't get flashbacks but we also didn't need flashbacks. He's a stoic hitman. He, deep down, enjoys fighting. It's not very sophisticated but it is, at least, a personality. It was short and sweet and didn't waste time.
edited 10th Feb '18 2:36:05 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"![]()
Oh yeah that sounds better. Yeah its not too little yet, its just too late.
I'm hoping that when Fighter Z 2 or Super or Accel or whatever its called gets another story mode Jiren will be apart of it.
I think it be fun especially if sequel escalation is inputted & time-travel characters (Teen Gohan, Future Trunks, Black) or inter-dimensional characters (Hit, Saiyan Girls) are allowed to join in on the adventure.
edited 10th Feb '18 2:36:15 PM by slimcoder
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."@ Slimcoder
I find that rather amusing since you manage to interpret a lot of Jiren's character in 5 panel at most.
@ Tomodachi
Disagree on the 1st impressions. Maybe that's the case for the Dragon Ball villains but Cell made a horrifying impression the 1st we saw him. The Androids weren't effective that I do agree with despite Gero's decapitation on the poor car driver & 16,17, & 18 didn't really do much other than beat the Z-Fighters up, but that's probably the point anyways when it comes to those 3.
Buu was all over the place but you're right about Buu in general & Saiyans did what was needed at the time & that's fine.
edited 10th Feb '18 2:52:47 PM by agent-trunks
Wel,I believe Vegeta was a bit bland in his introduction. He started to get interesting in the Namek saga. Is not so much about first impressions (Hell, everyone did a nice job), but how interesting they were outside their roles as Arc Villain.
Anyway, I would love a side-story with the U6 cast, especially in Fighter Z, as Hit and Goku Black weren't used at all (But I guess it makes sense).
edited 10th Feb '18 3:40:11 PM by Tomodachi
To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.I don't even think the filler was needed for Hit. I recall him being pretty well received just in the universe 6 arc, and the reason for that is the universe 6 arc facilitated keeping him a mystery MUCH better because there was no need for him to be active before his turn. The arc was also short enough that his mystery didn't get dragged out, and the few episodes he had fleshed him out quite well.
Jiren has been around for a VERY long time without being fleshed out, and in this format there isn't much excuse for keeping him mysterious or out of the action.
That's not the line I've seen in any of the subs I've viewed. He just says he'll release more power, nothing that implies holding back. And even if he had said that, it becomes a Voodoo Shark - why use a stronger form if you're going to hold back so much that it is ineffectual? Also, why use the stamina-draining Blue when you have less draining forms that are powerful enough to get the job done? If holding back means that Blue DOESN'T drain a tonne of stamina, why does he then avoid using it at other times? Why did he use God against Kale, Caulifla and Dyspo if he can just hold back in Blue? If holding back in Blue doesn't reduce the drain, then why did he go for a held back Blue here instead of God? It just gets increasingly more confusing and contradictory the more you try and explain it.
I don't think arc villain status matters at all for this. That's just a role in the story, it has nothing to do with inconsistency. And Goku's inconsistency in this arc alone heavily outweighs Super 17's vulnerability being too effectively exploited by base Goku.
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I mean, Vegeta is more interesting on Namek but he's not uninteresting in his own arc. Part of that is how absolutely a Determinator he is in his fight (and I probably would say that's one of, if not the best, Dragonball fight) which goes a long way to making him a threat. He also serves as an excellent foil for Goku in terms of high-class V low-class Saiyan.
Honestly, you could have probably killed Vegeta for good on Namek and that would be some of the best parts of his character for me. I wonder how the series would look going forward with no Vegeta...
No Trunks, so it's future Gohan who comes back. Piccolo ends up as the main rival going forward (presumably becoming Majin Piccolo down the line).
edited 10th Feb '18 4:02:45 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"Herms is a treat.
Also, Vegeta was definitely interesting/entertaining in his own arc, it's just that the Namek arc fleshed him out for a different kind of role. The Namek arc development wasn't because he was boring before, but an arc villain needs a different kind of development to the role Vegeta moved into.
As to having DB without Vegeta, if you're just going to put other people in his/Trunks' roles I don't really see the point. It'd be more interesting for Goku not to have a rival, especially come Super era where the Goku/Vegeta dynamic is totally played out but still used a lot.
edited 10th Feb '18 4:22:42 PM by Saiga
Non-Spoilers jokes:
I can't believe Goku Black was responsible for Jiren upbringing.
If there is one thing the Dragon ball community got right about Jiren: Is that he is from the hoods, bro!
To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.

It all depends on the execution.
Sadly I am cynical enough to expect that it will be unsatisfying & lacking in the end.
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."