TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Dragon Ball

Go To

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#77976: Feb 9th 2018 at 9:26:21 AM

Super & GT had 3 story arcs in their run.

Point in GT's favor is that all those arcs were serialized epics ala Frieza Saga or Cell Saga.

Super only has one, the Black Saga though the Universal Destruction Saga is a bit more serialized due to the battle royale format.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#77977: Feb 9th 2018 at 10:44:18 AM

Say what you want about Dragon Ball Super, but it wouldn't have an arc villain overpower SSB Goku and then get beaten by base Goku. GT did that TWICE, once with Super 17 and once with Omega Shenron.

Also, fun fact: the Super 17 arc is REALLY short. Like, shorter than any other major arc in the franchise. It's 7 episodes long. Closest would be the Res 'F' arc in Super, which was 9 episodes long.

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#77978: Feb 9th 2018 at 10:46:38 AM

Wait what does it matter what form the villain is beaten in? Goku was evenly matched with Kid Buu in Super Saiyan 3 but ended up beating him in Super Saiyan 1.

This song needs more love.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#77979: Feb 9th 2018 at 10:49:19 AM

Didn't Goku use a spirit bomb to beat Omega Shenron?

You don't need to be powered up to use that, I don't think. The whole point is you're stealborrowing energy from everything else.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#77980: Feb 9th 2018 at 10:54:09 AM

Yeah, but base Goku effortlessly tanked attacks from Omega Shenron while holding that Spirit Bomb. Attacks that should have logically vaporized him.

edited 9th Feb '18 10:54:30 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#77981: Feb 9th 2018 at 10:59:33 AM

I subscribe to the theory that Goku was killed by that and stuck around through the sheer power of Shonen.

This song needs more love.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#77982: Feb 9th 2018 at 11:03:07 AM

He does ascend to a higher plane of existence not long after.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#77983: Feb 9th 2018 at 11:52:54 AM

From this GT Q&A

Where did Goku go on Shenlong’s back at the very end?

To be honest, in GT episode 63, just before the final episode, a big change comes over Goku. Those who watched carefully might have noticed, but… In that episode, Goku, who takes Yi Xing Long‘s attack, sinks to the bottom of a deep hole. That is the turning point. Afterward, Goku still continues the battle, but what’s different from before is that he’s cloaked in an aura that won’t let any attack near him.

It might be that he died there, or it might be that he became something else entirely. I’ll leave that decision to the imaginations of everyone who watched. However, the Goku up to that point that everyone knows clearly does not appear after that.

In the world of Dragon Ball, Goku had already died multiple times, and up till then, each time he appeared with a halo over his head. However, I didn’t want to go with the usual concept of, “even when he dies, he comes right back to life”. I wanted the viewers to picture “death” in that way, and feel a sadness close to it in reality. So I had a “change” come over Goku.

And then after that, once he defeats Yi Xing Long and grants the final wish, Goku goes right off with Shenlong and the Dragon Balls, to somewhere that people definitely can’t get to. While wishing that people will be able to get by on their own strength in a world without the Dragon Balls. And Vegeta is the only one who notices where he’s headed.

Except, I personally go ahead and imagine… that Goku might unexpectedly show up, just at Chi-Chi’s, from time to time. Yes, unexpectedly….

[caption] The line “Shenlong’s back… it sure is warm…”, which Goku says at the very end, is apparently something that was suggested at a much earlier stage and then thawed out for the final episode.

I recommend reading the whole thing. Some interesting stuff on the thought process behind decisions.

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#77984: Feb 9th 2018 at 2:17:19 PM

Odd, the shortest sagas are the worst in both series.

[nja] YES! TOP OF THE PAGE!

edited 9th Feb '18 2:18:27 PM by Tomodachi

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#77985: Feb 9th 2018 at 2:38:46 PM

or why they could fuse and become so much stronger.

I was curious so I looked it up. In the dub, Gero and Myuu say "When these two Androids merge, they will become the most perfect being ever created. Each complete part of one will fill in the incomplete gaps in the other's mechanical structure. The machine parts will take on an organic quality, like a cyborg." "And, it will mutate, to become more efficient." In the sub they just say "When they become one, all of the systems in their body will become perfect, and Number 17 will be reborn as the mightiest ultimate artificial human". Gotta say I prefer the dub's explanation there.

Another interesting discrepancy I found, in the sub Hell Fighter 17 is around Vegeta's power level, but in the dub Vegeta calls him a joke, implying his power was around that of the original 17.

Thebrawlbro Since: Aug, 2013
#77986: Feb 9th 2018 at 3:25:33 PM

[up] To be fair, Vegeta mocking someone who he really shouldn’t isn’t out of character for him.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#77988: Feb 9th 2018 at 4:33:28 PM

Why is that perfect.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
DarkHunter from New Mexico Since: Jan, 2001
#77989: Feb 9th 2018 at 4:48:38 PM

In dub-related news, Christopher Sabat (voice of Vegeta, Piccolo, Yamcha, Shenron, and others) is to be honored as an "Industry Icon" at Crunchyrolls' Anime Awards.

I think he deserves it. He's been with Funimation since the start, and is just an awesome guy in general.

edited 9th Feb '18 4:48:54 PM by DarkHunter

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#77990: Feb 9th 2018 at 4:50:32 PM

Helps that he's voiced a shit-ton of iconic characters each with amazing performances.

Every language has a legend.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
agent-trunks IHE from Every-where, but there Since: Apr, 2015
IHE
#77992: Feb 9th 2018 at 6:49:03 PM

I've met him at San Fransisco comic con. It was a huge honor to finally to see him face to face.

Anyone ever been starstruck before? I didn't think that was actually a thing until I met Sabbat.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#77993: Feb 9th 2018 at 7:03:00 PM

As a kid I once got strangled by Peter Mayhew (Chewbacca) at a con, does that count?

My mom took a picture.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#77994: Feb 9th 2018 at 7:12:30 PM

I think its everyone's dream to be chocked by Chewie himself. tongue

I once met Sara Pichelli artist of Spider-Man (Miles Morales specifically) which at the time was my favorite comic book at a con once & it was a great experience.

Such a nice woman.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#77995: Feb 9th 2018 at 7:29:26 PM

We went from meeting Christopher Sabat at a con to getting choked by Chewbacca somehow. Incredible

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#77996: Feb 9th 2018 at 7:38:22 PM

We were discussing meeting celebrities at cons and I mentioned I did and he choked me; totally relevant.

edited 9th Feb '18 7:38:35 PM by HamburgerTime

agent-trunks IHE from Every-where, but there Since: Apr, 2015
IHE
#77997: Feb 9th 2018 at 11:09:15 PM

Yea, I still can't believe that got Peter Mayhew to voice a GT minor villain for A Hero's Legacy.

[up] How was that btw?

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#77998: Feb 9th 2018 at 11:22:56 PM

I was curious so I looked it up. In the dub, Gero and Myuu say "When these two Androids merge, they will become the most perfect being ever created. Each complete part of one will fill in the incomplete gaps in the other's mechanical structure. The machine parts will take on an organic quality, like a cyborg." "And, it will mutate, to become more efficient." In the sub they just say "When they become one, all of the systems in their body will become perfect, and Number 17 will be reborn as the mightiest ultimate artificial human". Gotta say I prefer the dub's explanation there.

The dub explanation brings me back to what I'd previously said about liking the concept for Machine Mutants and thinking it could work for an antagonist. Android 17 be upgraded with Machine Mutant technology to be the best of Gero and Myuu's work is a decent premise for a powerful villain.

Of course, there's the whole 'making HF 17' and 'characters having bodies in hell' things. The second is consistent with the anime, but just raises so many questions if they have that kind of freedom and capability in hell. I'd like to see the idea done in a way that could be compliant with the manga version of hell but doesn't really think it's possible. The out-there idea I had was that the machine mutant's souls still had the 'merge with machines' ability, and they merge with the soul cleansing machine of hell to give their bodies back and take over hell, kicking off the arc and allowing Myuu to create Super 17.

As for using Goku vs 17 to try and defend Super, I don't think that one example makes for a very compelling defense. There's not much difference between Goku vs 17 and Goku vs Kale inconsistencies - yeah, obviously the difference between base GT Goku and SS 4 Goku is a lot bigger than God Goku and Blue Goku, but in either case the difference between forms is substantial enough to create a logic break and it's still the same kind of consistency. And the later version I would say is easily worse written because there is no attempt to reconcile these differences, whereas GT at least goes with the idea that Super 17's absorption leaves him vulnerable.

And yeah, 18's line from the video is clearly that if she stops blasting 17 it will lead to her death - because he'll kill her.

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#77999: Feb 10th 2018 at 6:20:13 AM

GYUS! Baby Jiren.

About fucking finally. Have you ever seen a more cute ayyyymao? Besides Tarble's wife, anyway.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#78000: Feb 10th 2018 at 6:47:41 AM

[up][up] Technically, there is a line that does explain it. Goku saying "I'll use a little bit more power" when he goes Blue. Hey, it's just as valid of an explanation as "Super 17 is vulnerable when absorbing energy", and Kale isn't an Arc Villain, so it's less egregious.

[up]

If I'm being honest, I never thought we were going to get Jiren's backstory. We didn't get one on Hit, and all Hit needed was a single line establishing that he's over 1,000 years old.

edited 10th Feb '18 6:55:03 AM by PushoverMediaCritic


Total posts: 130,800
Top