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Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77876: Feb 8th 2018 at 11:36:07 AM

[up][up] Honestly, I'd probably put the U6 arc above the Buu arc.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#77877: Feb 8th 2018 at 11:41:50 AM

[up] I wouldn't.

U6 has Auto Maggetta, Cabba, Hit, & the return of the Kaio-Ken.

Buu Saga has stuff like Vegeta & Goku's final battle, Vegeta's sacrifice, the great Saiyaman, Videl's relationship with Gohan, even if they failed Gotenks & Gohans ferocious battles with Super Buu, the SS 3 transformation & by extension its theme song, & Kid Buu's destruction via the Universal Spirit Bomb as the finale.

Even Z's weakest arc is better than Super's best.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#77878: Feb 8th 2018 at 11:43:47 AM

Buu's arc is actually the one I remember the most about because it just has so many weird great moments.

Its a string of bonkers stuff happening as the threat keeps ratcheting up seemingly in a game of chicken with itself

Also probably because it was the current running arc when I started watching dragonball

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EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#77879: Feb 8th 2018 at 11:44:45 AM

Yeah I agree, Buu Saga > U6 Tournament

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#77880: Feb 8th 2018 at 11:45:33 AM

Nah, the Boo arc is just that good.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#77881: Feb 8th 2018 at 11:47:48 AM

Also, they missed a great opportunity at the end to just... have Future Trunks join the main timeline. Like, if you're going to have that terrible, terrible ending, just have him hop in the main team. I know we're stuffed with Saiyans, but let's face it, very few people are going to complain about FT - he's very unique and has a great backstory.

Much like the fakeout death with Roshi, this is a side effect of Super being a prequel to Z's Epilogue. They can't do any major Status Quo changes to the cast.

edited 8th Feb '18 11:48:01 AM by Lionheart0

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#77882: Feb 8th 2018 at 11:48:09 AM

I don't know if its the best plotted arc but in a lot of ways it feels like the dragonballiest arc for good and ill

edited 8th Feb '18 11:48:33 AM by Bocaj

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Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77883: Feb 8th 2018 at 11:50:34 AM

Buu saga also undoes Gohan's entire character arc, has Vegeta derail his character arc then fixes that derailment by having it lead to a fantastic sacrifice scene then have that sacrifice A. do nothing and B. mean nothing, because Vegeta is resurrected in the same arc.

It has Fat Buu, who's great at first but is swiftly replaced by the most boring main arc villain of all time.

It has seemingly endless powerups and fakeouts. The Freeza and Cell arcs were pretty bad with it too, but this just takes the cake; Gotenks, Goku, Gohan, Vegetto, just character after character hyped up as the greatest thing ever and just failing.

If the Buu arc was a lot shorter than it actually ended up being, I might rank it a lot higher. But it's not. It's long, and it's just such a drag.

edited 8th Feb '18 11:51:27 AM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#77884: Feb 8th 2018 at 11:50:37 AM

Also Vegito's "battle" & humiliation of Super Buu.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#77885: Feb 8th 2018 at 11:51:26 AM

[up][up][up]Just good, it's totally ill...

edited 8th Feb '18 11:52:12 AM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#77886: Feb 8th 2018 at 11:56:38 AM

Buu saga also undoes Gohan's entire character arc

...no? It's the logical conclusion to his character arc. He takes up the helm as a defender of earth in the form of the great saiyaman, something that Gohan wouldn't have done before. He stands up against injustice. He doesn't train, sure, but he had no reason to.

It has Fat Buu, who's great at first but is swiftly replaced by the most boring main arc villain of all time.

Fat Buu sticks around, just not as a villain. Kid Buu is interesting because, unlike any other villain in the series, his only motivation is to destroy. Frieza and Cell want to prove their superiority, but Kid Buu isn't like that.

Gotenks, Goku, Gohan, Vegetto, just character after character hyped up as the greatest thing ever and just failing.

I rather liked that- the stakes keep getting raised higher and higher and the heroes are struggling to keep up. And within it are a bunch of great fights.

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#77887: Feb 8th 2018 at 11:56:58 AM

The Buu Saga is sloppy, but I also don't think it's worse than any of the Super arcs.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#77888: Feb 8th 2018 at 11:58:56 AM

Lets see. Universe 6 arc was 14 episodes, Goku Black arc was 21 episodes, and by the time it's done Universe Survival arc will be 55 episodes. In Dragon Ball Kai, the Buu saga from Great Saiyaman to the end is 69 episodes.

edited 8th Feb '18 11:59:41 AM by Moth13

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#77889: Feb 8th 2018 at 11:59:28 AM

One of the main problems I've had with Super for a long time, and something that hits is zenith in the TOP, is that this show doesn't really have arcs as much as it has battles. It's justified with the first couple arcs, because they're just the more simplistically-plotted movies with extra padding, but it took that format to heart and kept going with everything: every story is the lead up to a single (if big) fight, followed by that fight, end, next arc begins with another upcoming fight.

There's very little in the way of changing situations or larger scope plots for the characters to take on: a major battle is set to take place, and the heroes go to take care of it. The only real exception is the Zamasu arc, and because of the general repetitiveness and lack of real immersion in the situation, that still feels less like a developing plotline and more like a single fight that's broken up into rounds: Black wins this round, the heroes dip back home to towel off, then they jump right back into the same fight again, rinse and repeat a few more times than really necessary.

Not that this isn't a good thing in doses (the Saiyan saga was an example of this, for example, and it's great) but the fact that the show does nothing but that makes it harder to get invested in the overall series than it should be. It's, imo, why ultimately the series' slice of life episodes have often been better than the actual main arcs.

And the Tournament of Power seems like what would happen if they took that idea to the fullest. "Let's just cut out the middle man entirely, and have an entire arc that just one long battle with explosions and ki blasts and everything people love!" And the end result is - unsurprisingly - repetitive, tedious and uncreative.

edited 8th Feb '18 12:01:06 PM by KnownUnknown

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#77890: Feb 8th 2018 at 12:00:19 PM

I don't think Gogeta failed. He dominated.

And then he stopped being a thing due to arbitrary reasons and Vegeta refused to do it again because he secretly hates being the strongest.

Its weird how Gogeta as a thing just stops being a thing that matters. But that's Dragon Ball. Things just stop mattering as the plot moves on.

And that's why the Buu arc is the dragonballiest.

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Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#77892: Feb 8th 2018 at 12:03:26 PM

Whoops, yeah.

Stupid fusions and their stupid portmanteau names are so confusing.

How do you keep it straight?

edited 8th Feb '18 12:03:48 PM by Bocaj

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MyssaRei Since: Feb, 2010
#77893: Feb 8th 2018 at 12:04:45 PM

[up]

Image association? Also Gogeta in both his forms is visually distinct from Vegetto's blue gi and gloves combination.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77894: Feb 8th 2018 at 12:12:00 PM

...no? It's the logical conclusion to his character arc. He takes up the helm as a defender of earth in the form of the great saiyaman, something that Gohan wouldn't have done before. He stands up against injustice. He doesn't train, sure, but he had no reason to.

Gohan does have reason to train - he's the only possible defence if something evil comes around, again. I don't mind the Great Saiyaman antics. I just have a problem with how when push came to shove Gohan couldn't walk the walk like he used to, and instead Goku is dug up again.

.Fat Buu sticks around, just not as a villain. Kid Buu is interesting because, unlike any other villain in the series, his only motivation is to destroy. Frieza and Cell want to prove their superiority, but Kid Buu isn't like that.
.

Generic doomsday villain is not an improvement on what came before. Only motivation is to destroy is not interesting, certainly not how the Buu arc implemented it. Also, before Kid Buu we had to put up with Super Buu, who is basically Perfect Cell but less charismatic.

.I rather liked that- the stakes keep getting raised higher and higher and the heroes are struggling to keep up. And within it are a bunch of great fights.

There's a point where the stakes are high and then there's a point where it all devolves into bullshit. Goku secretly having SSJ 3 all this time is the prime offender, because it completely ruins anything interesting about his fight with Vegeta. Right after that is Ultimate Gohan, which is utterly cheap and has no narrative payoff whatsoever, and turned out to have no narrative potential whatsoever either.

I will also debate most of these fights being great, but it is clear that that is incredibly subjective so I will only say that I don't enjoy them on a mechanical level.

Stupid fusions and their stupid portmanteau names are so confusing. How do you keep it straight?

Gogeta is easier to say and he looks better than Vegetto. BOOM. Done.

edited 8th Feb '18 12:13:26 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#77895: Feb 8th 2018 at 12:23:43 PM

He looks exactly the same but with a different outfit...

And fusion of clothes looks niceness.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#77896: Feb 8th 2018 at 12:26:45 PM

His tiny dance vest is so tiny that I'm surprised it doesn't just rip off whenever he flexes

Did they paint him into that vest? No he danced into it. And yet its still so tiny and so useless as an actual piece of clothing. Why the vest why not just go shirtless?

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Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#77897: Feb 8th 2018 at 12:27:24 PM

I'm kinda curious how people here would rank the three arcs of Super.

Tournament of Power; Goku Black; Universe 6.

Really, the new material wins me over. The power level inconsistencies and Goku's dogged DETERMINATION <3 are annoying, but seeing all of the old cast back, facing new, dangerous foes in a battle royal, with actual stakes.

Black ended up being more entertaining than I expected. Getting to see Vegetto and Future Trunks again was nice.

Universe 6 had me all kinds of pumped but... in hindsight it didn't really do much besides get Zeno's attention. It's like comparing the first martial arts tournament in Dragonball to the Cell Games.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#77898: Feb 8th 2018 at 12:27:46 PM

Gogeta is a better fusion name, but they really do look identical aside from clothing.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#77899: Feb 8th 2018 at 12:46:01 PM

Think thats the point. They're basically alternate versions of each other.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#77900: Feb 8th 2018 at 12:47:48 PM

It's not the Boo arc's fault that Gohan stopped training - Goku even says in the Cell Games that if Gohan beats Cell there will be peace and he can stop fighting.

Gohan obviously made a mistake, but he didn't undo his character arc, because it wasn't a mistake he made before and it wasn't a situation he had been in before.

RF/Super having him repeat the mistake after he's aware of his error is dumb, though.

Anyway - on 18, while I heavily dislike her being a reward for Kuririn I do like the fact that she had a larger Boo arc role than her husband. The 25th Tournament turned into a B plot starring her, which was really fun.

I also agree that for its faults, I wouldn't place the Boo arc below Universe 6. As far as Super's 3 original arc goes, I'm not entirely sure how to compare the TOP and Goku Black arcs - maybe the ending of the TOP will help. Right now, I think the TOP is worse. So, anime-wise:

Universe 6 > Goku Black > TOP

Super just gets worse over time!

For the manga, I'm not sure but the Goku Black arc might rate over Universe 6. Eh, probably not, it still has that bad ending.


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