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Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#77651: Feb 6th 2018 at 4:07:37 PM

[up][up]Is there fan-art of Belmod peeking out of a sewer grate yet?

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#77652: Feb 6th 2018 at 4:12:59 PM

Actually since someone mentioned Batman I should note even he will cast off his ideals when necessary.

In Final Crisis when the universe was ending because Darkseid was slowly dying so he decided to take everything with him Bats decided to break his one rule. He gets a god-killing bullet the same one Darkseid use to kill his son Orion & walks up to the God of fucking Evil to shoot him in his face with an actual gun.

So yeah even someone as stuck-up as Batman will break his rule when necessary. This is exactly what Toppo did.

edited 6th Feb '18 4:14:11 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#77653: Feb 6th 2018 at 4:13:53 PM

Toriyama/Toei subverted the idea that Toppo was hero? Oh well, I really hope Goku gets to have his fight with Jiren. where it is revealed that Jiren is a complete jerk to make Goku look better by comparison. I am really going to love this fight.

edited 6th Feb '18 4:14:36 PM by GAP

"Mai waifu."
GOI god of insanity from everywhere/nowhere Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
god of insanity
#77654: Feb 6th 2018 at 4:18:45 PM

Not really because he clearly was conflicted about it though but that doesn't change the effect long term if the long term effect is the same then it doesn't matter so in terms of my personal final judge it is if he goes back to justice then he will win back most of the lost points if he doesn't then he basically ends of being the same as vegata when he frist showed up.

Like I said the road to hell is paved with good intentions if it was a temporary thing I can give him a complete pass but if it I should permanent based on his later words though he seems to really want to kill someone but the end result if it was not temporary is now a Go D candidate who,doesn't care about his own universe based on his own words. Because vegata is one of he few people left that Toppo or anyone states they are fighting for someone other than themselves. So why bother telling what as far as he knows everyone else is in it for,themselves.

Vegata(promise to,cabba) , goku(to,fight strong people, to become strong), jrin(what lies beyond strength)' frezia(himself), 17(I don't think he has said but himself), toppo(who,straight goes you should copy me and fight for,yourself because that is the way to,power(before hand justice and his universe) so yeah basically vegata is the least selfish person in this tournament

The distance between insanity and genius is measured only by success. Insanity runs in my family. It practically gallops.
Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#77655: Feb 6th 2018 at 4:22:58 PM

Universal destruction is also permanent.

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#77656: Feb 6th 2018 at 4:25:51 PM

Does that mean that Universe 7 are the designated heroes?

"Mai waifu."
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#77657: Feb 6th 2018 at 4:26:42 PM

So yeah even someone as stuck-up as Batman will break his rule when necessary. This is exactly what Toppo did

I mean that a seemingly quintessential aspect of Batman's character is his refusal to break his moral code. He does it occasionally, but its presence is a larger staple of his character than its absence. People made a big deal out of Bat-Affleck killing people wantonly in Batman v Superman for a reason.

Therefore, if Toppo is compared to Batman due to their unwavering dedication to those codes, Bruce is still better-known for adhering to his own (Injustice Gods Among Us), while Toppo's character arc has largely been about abandoning his.

Does that mean that Universe 7 are the designated heroes?

There are at least four serial killers on Team Universe 7, as well as a racist and a nihilist. tongue

This is why I love Dragon Ball.

edited 6th Feb '18 4:34:12 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
GOI god of insanity from everywhere/nowhere Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
god of insanity
#77658: Feb 6th 2018 at 4:27:31 PM

So at least one maybe two(two,in manga not yet clear in anime) responses is I don't care it the universe ends so be it, so yeah also apparently it might not be permanent(probably won't be but who knows could be a surprise twist ). Who wants to bet that they merge all the destroyed universe together I don't Zeno would care hell it might lead to a better show, for,them.

At this point it is less heroes and villains and more villains and villains

edited 6th Feb '18 4:29:20 PM by GOI

The distance between insanity and genius is measured only by success. Insanity runs in my family. It practically gallops.
Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#77659: Feb 6th 2018 at 4:29:50 PM

[up][up] Batman has also received plenty of criticism for stubbornly refusing to kill despite several other superheroes killing and staying sane.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#77660: Feb 6th 2018 at 4:30:41 PM

Again Final Crisis involved universal oblivion.

Either shoot Darkseid or let everything & everyone die.

edited 6th Feb '18 4:31:31 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#77661: Feb 6th 2018 at 4:47:36 PM

I feel like it wasn't just that Toppo comprised his justice, which i fully agree with him doing btw. It was that he did that, then called his previous ideals worthless and openly mocked Vegeta for his. He didn't just go this isn't what i want but its needed right now. His attitude wasn't of someone struggling with this choice.

Then to top it off he accomplished nothing (which was super bs) and it wasn't even needed. Jiren is still right there not struggling at all.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#77662: Feb 6th 2018 at 4:48:58 PM

I feel like the taunting was just to get you on Vegeta's side and didn't make much sense with it being something that he was supposed to be struggling with. Which it clearly was supposed to be otherwise why wouldn't he have already done this?

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#77663: Feb 6th 2018 at 4:51:47 PM

I feel like this goes into another writing issue in that they have a hard time writing these characters as anything more than assholes.

Like Toppo's character arc is actually pretty interesting but it requires a level of nuance and complexity to get just right and Super is just incapable of that.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#77664: Feb 6th 2018 at 4:52:21 PM

Because wiping out planets is still counter to being a hero that saves everyone. Being needed for the universe doesn't change that. And again they never presented this as a struggle on his part, he did it then acted like everything he held before was shit. I mean it really comes down to bad writing.

And again Jiren is right there. The batman final crisis example doesn't work here, this isn't Batman out of options. This is Batman turning into Doomsday as a last resort while Superman is standing right there able to solve everything.

edited 6th Feb '18 4:54:54 PM by Jedi1113

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#77665: Feb 6th 2018 at 5:07:04 PM

We have a trope for heroes throwing away their ideals when it's the only thing left for them to do, fittingly named for Batman's actions in Final Crisis.

edited 6th Feb '18 5:08:46 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#77666: Feb 6th 2018 at 5:09:48 PM

The nature of this tournament kinda hamstrung Toei's writing abilities. They really only had 2 choices, make every other fighter sympathetic or make them unlikable. The latter makes it easier to route for Universe 7 and to watch the other universes get erased.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#77667: Feb 6th 2018 at 5:21:57 PM

I'm curious as to how Toriyama will portray them to be honest.

I mean, his villains are good at being horrible people, but don't really gain much nuance unless they do a Heel–Face Turn. When they are bad guys, they are very bad guys, so I'm wondering how the manga will portray a bunch of heroic antagonists.

One Strip! One Strip!
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#77668: Feb 6th 2018 at 5:31:22 PM

I expect we will lose moments like Gohan seeing the alien dad from the other universe and 18's quest for love, but we'll gain more sympathy for the two Super Nameks and probably for Kale and Caulifa. It'll be mix and match, some characters will be better and others will be worse.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#77669: Feb 6th 2018 at 5:43:43 PM

At first I thought we wouldn't lose much from the whole "love" spiel till I realized that was effectively 18's high point in the entire arc.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#77670: Feb 6th 2018 at 5:52:59 PM

Well, maybe she'll get something better.

I know Toriyama doesn't use his female very well, but remember he did introduced 18 via her foot imprinting itself on Vegeta's ass, so who knows?

One Strip! One Strip!
GarnetRebeller96 Since: Nov, 2015
#77671: Feb 6th 2018 at 6:00:39 PM

'Salty' is generally used in memes intended to disparage and insult... you really can't call other people hostile if you're going to throw that around
.

That sounds more like someone taking it offensively when they really shouldn't. And memes are jokes. Jokes aren't hostile.

edited 6th Feb '18 6:01:15 PM by GarnetRebeller96

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#77672: Feb 6th 2018 at 6:02:58 PM

The thing about the tournament is that it's mostly written in a vacuum, weekly basis. It's not a serialized, long story arc. It;s basically an episodic arc that's trying to be a long major arc.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#77673: Feb 6th 2018 at 6:04:04 PM

[up] (4) She did that one team attack with Krillin which was kind of cool. I'm curious if that move turned up in Fighter Z.

edited 6th Feb '18 6:05:01 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#77674: Feb 6th 2018 at 6:07:00 PM

I'm curious as to how Toriyama will portray them to be honest.

You mean Toyotarou?

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#77675: Feb 6th 2018 at 6:07:14 PM

[up][up][up] Then that right there is the biggest problem in this entire arc.

[up][up] But she doesn't do anything on her own though. Compared to her brother who scored the decisive blow against Anilaza, battled Toppo & held out against his God mode solo, & next episode is looking like he gets to down like a boss against Jiren with some prolly amazeballs stunts.

edited 6th Feb '18 6:08:19 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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