I'm saying that Vegeta ignores how this sort of stuff is actually done when it suits him, and holding up "but he trains so hard" isn't an excuse, because if that's how Dragonball's power system actually worked Piccolo and Tien would both be in the top 4 members of the cast.
You can't just train for Super Saiyan Blue. You need the ritual to become Super Saiyan God first. Otherwise Vegeta should have as much chance of getting it by training as fucking Krillin. But he gets it, because otherwise Vegeta would throw all his toys out of the pram.
edited 6th Feb '18 10:22:19 AM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"someone said it earlier in the thread but I agree that we aren't necessarily supposed to agree with Jiren because right after he said it dyspo looked upset at the insult and goku asks him why he said that right before he kicks goku in the face. it really doesnt't seem like its something that is 100% in the right
@Larfleeze Lol careful, some folks in this thread might come after you for saying that.
Edit: And right after I just said that Epic Bleye just came after you. Even though all you said is that you like Dragon Ball Super. It seems saying anything good about Super is enough for someone to get triggered.
@ Sigilbreaker266th But you were the one to mention people training to reach certain condition. I only use "because he train hard" because you brought it up. Again, you're confusing me.
edited 6th Feb '18 11:18:24 AM by GarnetRebeller96
It's like if you needed a rat tail to class change but Vegeta is like whatever I'm a Black Wizard now
Or evolving into a raichu without a thunder stone
Or something?
edited 6th Feb '18 11:25:01 AM by Bocaj
Forever liveblogging the Avengers@Sigil, on your point about hard work not mattering in the series, it does, it just isn't the end all be all. I don't see what's supposed to be wrong with that.
Goku and Vegeta also work super hard and they're also much more talented than Tien and Piccolo. And even Piccolo gets it better than most other people, also largely due to his innate talent and racial abilities so I don't see him as an example of someone treated unfairly.
edited 6th Feb '18 11:30:10 AM by LSBK
Yeah. Hard work alone won't help. Unless you have a bit of talent or some game breaker genetics, it will only take you so far.
That being said, Gohan, Goten and Trunks show that even if you have the last two, if you don't work to refine your skill, it will atrophy and all that natural talent will mean nothing.
One Strip! One Strip!Doesn't exactly make for anything interesting in a fighting series though.
Also, since we're talking about Vegeta vs. Toppo, I want to point to this excerpt from ANN's review of the latest episode, because it illustrates mine and a few other people's thoughts perfectly in case people think "we're just bitching".
Sorry for responding late, but I didn't say that: I enjoy the series despite its flaws. What I hate sometimes is how the fanbase can be overlynegative about the subject.
By the way, last episode's writer was the same as Universe 4 episode with Damon, which may explain a certain drop.
That's a pretty good review.
edited 6th Feb '18 12:04:56 PM by Tomodachi
To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.I've said this before, but I think a lot of the "overly negative" only happens because certain people respond to any negativity badly, and it just results in people going more in depth with their issues, which also gets branded as "overly negative".
I'm not saying this happens all the time, sometimes people (myself included, probably) go overboard, but I think talks of calling this thread "toxic" are very exaggerated and over the line.
I don't know, maybe too much 4chan was bad for me alongside a bad day. Besides of morons who use the term "True fans" to bash Super or anything, which just annoys me to no end.
I never called the thread toxic. I was talking about the general fanbase, not you guys, you guys are cool. I come here everyday for a reason, no?
EXCEPT YOU PUSHOVER MEDIA CRITIC
edited 6th Feb '18 12:13:57 PM by Tomodachi
To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.@LSBK
I wasn't complaining about hard work not being important, just saying that you can't say "well Vegeta trains hard so he deserves to get so-and-so transformation" because loads of people work hard as him for much less power reward.
Heck, all Vegeta would need to do is get five Saiyans together for the ritual. He just can't be bothered. I don't even know why they didn't just put that detail in.
edited 6th Feb '18 12:55:53 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"

You outright said the other got it because they train for it, now you're saying training doesn't, matter?
You're confusing me.