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slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#77476: Feb 5th 2018 at 4:49:15 PM

Well Toriyama definitely didn't have a hand in Fighter Z cause he is awesomeness incarnate there.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#77477: Feb 5th 2018 at 4:50:38 PM

If you discount all the roasting he gets, that is...

Yamcha is only awesome in gameplay, and by god is he awesome.

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#77478: Feb 5th 2018 at 4:54:37 PM

What about the Nappa Pose? tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#77479: Feb 5th 2018 at 5:36:03 PM

[up]

The Nappa pose is the reason we know Toriyama didn't write it.

But yeah, we know Toriyama doesn't really hate or have a problem with Yamcha right? I mean, he's obviously indifferent to him to an incredible degree, but I doubt he flat out hates any character.

He definitely has his favourites though, and he's not above tossing someone under ten or twenty buses for his plot (even Got got hit with that with the Super Saiyan 3 reveal, even if only via Retcon), but I doubt he hates anyone on the roster.

One Strip! One Strip!
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77480: Feb 5th 2018 at 5:39:43 PM

Yeah, I'd say it's more that he prefers certain characters or finds them easier to write than he hates characters.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#77481: Feb 5th 2018 at 5:48:36 PM

That, and as we discussed before with the Gohan thing, he just defaults back to certain patterns at the first opportunity.

He writes a certain way, and if he can't make the character he's using work in that way, he goes back to the ones it works with.

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#77482: Feb 5th 2018 at 6:03:15 PM

Technically, Goku already kind of stole the Spirit Ball when he used it against Caulifla.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#77483: Feb 5th 2018 at 6:13:21 PM

oh god he did

he made one of yamcha's moves more effective

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77484: Feb 5th 2018 at 6:21:50 PM

It wasn't a bad move to start with, it was just Yamcha had the incredible bad luck to go up against God in disguise for the one fight he used it.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#77485: Feb 5th 2018 at 6:29:07 PM

Yeah, I'd say it's more that he prefers certain characters or finds them easier to write than he hates characters.

That explains why so many characters are often at receiving end of so much grief.

That, and as we discussed before with the Gohan thing, he just defaults back to certain patterns at the first opportunity. He writes a certain way, and if he can't make the character he's using work in that way, he goes back to the ones it works with.

That explains why it always appears that most arcs of the series seem to follow a similar pattern despite Dragon Ball's reputation for being "subversive".

"Mai waifu."
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77486: Feb 5th 2018 at 6:30:34 PM

Dragonball has a reputation for being subversive? Who ever said that?

The only way I can think of it being subversive is sometimes there's a contrast joke (like how the smaller fighter is usually more powerful, that sort of thing) but that's it.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#77487: Feb 5th 2018 at 6:31:25 PM

As subversive as The Last Jedi. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#77488: Feb 5th 2018 at 6:35:30 PM

Dragon Ball was subversive for its time. Every manga since then has copied it because it was a huge success.

Think Follow the Leader and "Seinfeld" Is Unfunny

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#77489: Feb 5th 2018 at 6:41:02 PM

[up] Jokes aside yeah that.

DBZ is like the big manga/anime all other manga/anime draw inspiration from.

Other examples include the likes of Sailor Moon, Gundam, & Evangelion.

edited 5th Feb '18 6:41:19 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77490: Feb 5th 2018 at 6:45:17 PM

I knew "Seinfeld" Is Unfunny was in effect, to be fair. Maybe that's just colouring my opinions. But it basically invented the genre... there's nothing really to subvert. I guess you could count Fist Of The North Star but even then I think that's more the granddaddy of battle Shonen rather than the daddy, if you catch my drift.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#77491: Feb 5th 2018 at 6:45:45 PM

It had a story.

And stories became hip.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#77492: Feb 5th 2018 at 6:59:31 PM

I don't know:

  • The hero was a little kid and a total moron;

  • The Old Master was an utter perv;

  • The heroine was utterly selfish and immoral;

  • The bad ass pretty boy turned out to be an awkward dork around women;

Did stuff like this happen in shonen back then, because if you look at it that way, it's pretty subversive.

One Strip! One Strip!
MyssaRei Since: Feb, 2010
#77493: Feb 5th 2018 at 7:58:39 PM

[up]

Given that Hokuto No Ken was only a few years older, then yeah, Dragon Ball was pretty subversive by comparison.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#77494: Feb 5th 2018 at 8:03:03 PM

I actually watched a video I think by Super Eyepatch Wolf about that matter.

Basically at the time was North Star fever and so everyone followed the same beat with a brutal overpowered protag and dark material. Eventually it started falling out of favor and that's when DB came in to steal the show as everything about it felt fresh & new.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#77495: Feb 5th 2018 at 8:05:29 PM

Its funny that Evangelion is now one of the major inspirations for shonen anime given that it was also twisting and subverting the Super Robot genre. Mazinger Z and Getter Robo are actually where you end up if you follow that rabbit hole back.

edited 5th Feb '18 8:07:12 PM by Zeromaeus

Deadpoolrocks Since: Sep, 2010
#77496: Feb 5th 2018 at 8:11:12 PM

What was the last new move a non new character did anyway? Final Flash? or I guess Final Explosion?

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#77497: Feb 5th 2018 at 8:31:45 PM

Vegito's Final Kamehameha, perhaps.

Unless you count Trunks's Spirit Bomb Sword thing as a move.

edited 5th Feb '18 8:32:07 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Deadpoolrocks Since: Sep, 2010
#77498: Feb 5th 2018 at 8:35:14 PM

I count vegito as a new character. so i guess it is the spirit sword thing

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#77499: Feb 5th 2018 at 8:41:54 PM

The Spirit Bomb Sword would count.

I still like it, even if I recognize the pure bullshit behind it.

Meanwhile:

Man, Jojo goes well with DBZ...though Roundabout is pretty old and all.

They should have waited until Goku actually fired it before going To Be Continued.

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#77500: Feb 5th 2018 at 8:50:27 PM

Would 17's barrier variations work as new techniques? His spinning one to deflect enemies, his smaller one he can encase enemies inside, and his other smaller one he can put around his hand to do a super punch are all pretty unique and new, it's just that none of them were given names.

edited 5th Feb '18 8:51:05 PM by PushoverMediaCritic


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