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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#77126: Feb 3rd 2018 at 9:14:50 PM

They tried that, aside from the anime actually stopping for periods of time on end. The anime still overtook the manga really fast. I'd also prefer if the anime wasn't more like the manga.

Deadpoolrocks Since: Sep, 2010
#77127: Feb 3rd 2018 at 9:16:49 PM

I kinds liked the concepts more in gt but i personally feel they dropped the ball more than the arcs in super do even if i dont like them as much. Mostly in that people other thsn goku do stuff which i enjoy no matter how little sense it msked

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#77128: Feb 3rd 2018 at 9:16:58 PM

Honestly, I'm not even sure why I'm still here. This is the Sonic the hedgehog situation all over again.

Do you just dislike anybody who criticizes something that you like?

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#77129: Feb 3rd 2018 at 9:32:19 PM

Good episode. [tup]

Only downside to my mind is Jiren suddenly being a prick. [tdown]

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#77130: Feb 3rd 2018 at 9:32:43 PM

@Black Yakuzu: When its only negative criticism that isn't very constructive, it gets tiring after a while

Watch Symphogear
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#77131: Feb 3rd 2018 at 9:37:19 PM

But people make it seem like we don't throw praise when it's due. The thing is, Super has a lot of problems. Even if I do ultimately enjoy the show, the problems aren't going to go away just because of that.

It's possible to enjoy something and acknowledge it's shortcomings as well. If the critique of this show bothers people so much, then that feels more like a problem with that person than with the ones who are critiquing.

Either step up and bring convincing arguments to refute the flaws being pointed out, or just ignore what's being said and just watch the show. A lot of people don't seem to understand that you don't have to respond to every single bit of criticism that gets thrown out just because you don't agree with it.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#77132: Feb 3rd 2018 at 9:41:24 PM

I also feel like it's important to understand other opinions here. I can understand why the things we complain about wouldn't be issues for other people. That doesn't mean it's wrong for us to complain about them, just that you're entitled to your opinion.

As long as no one is trying to force their opinions on other people, I don't see why voicing complaints, or praise, should be an issue. Which I think is part of the issue with Pushover, because much of their praise is focused specifically on saying people are wrong for complaining, which is what often prompts the detailed summations of everything wrong with Super anyway. Not always, obviously, but I think that starts things fairly often.

edited 3rd Feb '18 9:41:49 PM by LSBK

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#77133: Feb 3rd 2018 at 9:43:51 PM

That and Saiga just loves waving his Dragon Ball authority stick around :V[lol]

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#77134: Feb 3rd 2018 at 9:46:19 PM

I think it is more that it is the same complaints constantly. Yeah it has those flaws, yeah it hasn't gotten any better but does it need to be stated and restated constantly? It can get tiring especially when every discussion ends up going into the same flaws. PMC's praises can get repetitive and wear thin but the criticisms can to. Valid or not it gets old.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#77135: Feb 3rd 2018 at 9:47:52 PM

I mean, as long as a complaint is relevant I don't think it's wrong to bring it up. I can understand it getting tiring but at the same time, it's the show's fault for not actually, well, getting better.

This thread is for discussing Dragon Ball, and discussion often involves expressing complaints.

edited 3rd Feb '18 9:48:42 PM by LSBK

Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#77136: Feb 3rd 2018 at 9:53:47 PM

But at what point do you stop beating that poor, lifeless, horse corpse? Yes they have remained valid the entire show basically but that's kinda my point. Does it really further the conversation to go "wow this ep sure was poorly written and inconsistent" as if the vast majority of the 120+ eps haven't? The praises can be ignored without having to be refuted just as easily as the criticisms can. Its not hurting anyone if PMC or whoever doesn't see the same issues others do. I just often get the feeling some people just like to prove each other wrong (on both sides) more than they are just trying to have a thoughtfull discussion.

edited 3rd Feb '18 9:55:54 PM by Jedi1113

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#77137: Feb 3rd 2018 at 9:55:23 PM

Well, yeah, it's not hurting anyone to praise it, just like it's not hurting anyone to complain about it. That's the point.

Pushover's points wouldn't be refuted so often if he didn't make it obvious that he's deliberately trying to prove people wrong. If not for that, I doubt so many arguments like that would crop up.

If we should ignore praises we disagree with, than anyone else can ignore complaints they don't agree with.

edited 3rd Feb '18 9:58:20 PM by LSBK

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#77138: Feb 3rd 2018 at 9:56:01 PM

There's a lot of criticisms that I don't bring up each episodes because they're too common to Super overall. Pointing out specific things as bad is not like that, though, like saying that Vegeta's Final Explosion this episode was really bad isn't an accusation I could have lobbed at the show before because it's the first time they've ever done the Final Explosion.

Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#77139: Feb 3rd 2018 at 9:58:18 PM

Well yeah. The response regarding complaints is usually well you can ignore them while the responses bout praises tend to be focused on telling that person why they are wrong. That's really what leads to all the repetition I feel.

Both sides get into that too much I feel. We are at a point that no one is really drastically changing their opinions on this show so I feel it would just be more productive to just let people be and move on with the convo.

edited 3rd Feb '18 10:00:31 PM by Jedi1113

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#77140: Feb 3rd 2018 at 9:59:33 PM

[up]And I disagree with that assessment. It's really easy to ignore posts from people you disagree with or don't want to deal with at the moment.

edited 3rd Feb '18 10:00:16 PM by LSBK

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#77141: Feb 3rd 2018 at 10:00:14 PM

I haven't even gotten to say anything I liked about the most recent episode, all I've done is refute people's arguments for it being bad and snap at people for saying that I think it's perfect. Most of what I do is damage control, I forget to actually talk about what I liked during the episode. I did like the episode, too, I thought this made for a great climax to Vegeta's recent character arc of self-acceptance, and I thought it contrasted really well with Toppo having thrown away what's important to him in exchange for more power.

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#77142: Feb 3rd 2018 at 10:01:58 PM

To change topic, I remember someone saying that the To P should have stayed at five members per team to avoid filler, and I agree. Might as well trim down the useless filler characters. For example, U6 comprises of Hit, Magetta, Cabba, Kefla and Pirina. Kefla is now one character that have both Caulifla's attitude(I don't see any Kale in Kefla at all) with Kale's insecurities. Frost is kicked out because they never done anything with it and Botamo has too obvious a weakness to be exploited. Either only have one Namekian, or kick out Magetta for not overcoming his weakness.

[up] They've already done that during Buu arc. They just regressed his character to develop the same crap. I rather it be Vegeta acknowledging Toppo willingness to sacrifice his convictions for the ones he love.

edited 3rd Feb '18 10:03:32 PM by Ikedatakeshi

Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#77143: Feb 3rd 2018 at 10:03:08 PM

I feel like more than that they should have cut down on the number of universes. The majority of them were underdeveloped and meaningless.

edited 3rd Feb '18 10:05:04 PM by Jedi1113

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#77144: Feb 3rd 2018 at 10:03:53 PM

Calling that damage control is silly. There's no damage going on, and there should be no trying to control people.

Also, refute is another bad word. You haven't proven anything with your responses, this is all subjective.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#77145: Feb 3rd 2018 at 10:11:53 PM

My points provided...(oh my god, this thread moved fast) a bunch of pages ago were mostly based on evidence and statements. Opinions are fine, but when they're based on more than just feelings, when they're based on statements and evidence, they can be refuted and argued.

[up][up][up]I think the idea is more that he's accepting that he can be a person takes pride in who he is and takes pride in caring about others. His Buu Saga revelation was just that Goku is naturally better than him, it gets inflated in importance a lot.

edited 3rd Feb '18 10:16:13 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#77146: Feb 3rd 2018 at 10:15:16 PM

Refuted means to prove something incorrect. So to claim that YOU have refuted an opinion is, at best, quite arrogant. And it's silly to say your conclusions are correct like that, as opposed to saying that you believe them to be correct.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#77147: Feb 3rd 2018 at 10:19:42 PM

You're right. Refute is too strong a word and I was using it incorrectly. What I meant was "provide evidence against your side in this debate" not "conclusively prove you wrong". My mistake.

edited 3rd Feb '18 10:20:13 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Deadpoolrocks Since: Sep, 2010
#77148: Feb 3rd 2018 at 10:23:52 PM

wait that giant energy attack from buu arc and here has a name? huh

Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#77149: Feb 3rd 2018 at 10:24:44 PM

All I know is any criticism of this show is obviously jealously motivated character assassination.

Anyway, I'm guessing at least one episode of Goku and Vegeta fighting Jiren, then Vegeta goes down. 17 and Freeza will go down in the episode after that. Then Ultra Instinct Goku goes head to head with Jiren for an episode. Then full power Jiren ragdolls Goku for awhile. That's an episode unto itself. Then Goku somehow masters UI and clinches the win at the last second. So five episodes left, give or take? :hmm

edited 3rd Feb '18 10:25:01 PM by Eagal

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#77150: Feb 3rd 2018 at 10:27:41 PM

Actually, according to the NEP and spoilers 17 is almost certainly going out next episode. For realsies this time. No, really, I mean it. Why are you laughing?

I'm hoping Vegeta being full of energy again next episode has an explanation. Like that 17 recharges him and Goku. Oh shit, that would be a great way to fix the "Goku and Vegeta have infinite stamina" problem! Just change it so that the Androids are constantly donating energy to everyone on U7 throughout the tournament!

edited 3rd Feb '18 10:29:53 PM by PushoverMediaCritic


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