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BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#76751: Feb 1st 2018 at 1:48:02 PM

I never said Krillin was amazing, just that Toriyama said that he's still the strongest human regardless of how anybody feels about it.

That, and I'm kind sick of the constant bemoaning from fans on how Tien "deserves" to be stronger despite not being much of a character after his debut. Even if he was the strongest human...so what? He'd still be a rather bland character and he'd still be mostly ignored.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#76752: Feb 1st 2018 at 1:48:30 PM

[up][up][up][up][up]You say that as if Krillin being hurt by bullets makes sense. That it happened doesn't mean it isn't stupid, or that there's any reason to believe that Tien also wouldn't be hurt by being shot.

edited 1st Feb '18 1:48:51 PM by LSBK

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#76753: Feb 1st 2018 at 1:48:56 PM

[up]x4 I did say almost nothing, but yes, that was handy. He also gave away his position to Vegeta and got their ball stolen. Vegeta would have gotten all seven thanks to Krillin's stupidity if not for Gohan's quick thinking when he encountered Vegeta. That's right, Krillin was less useful tactically to the group than a 5 year old child.

[up] It's incredibly stupid, since it requires a power level closer to an average human than to Goku when he first appears in the series. Master Roshi, Krillin and Goku have all been shown tanking bullets in the past with no more than momentary pain. Regardless, I was simply responding to the allegation that I wasn't going along with what the series was showing us.

[up][up] Your opinion on Tien, my opinion on Tien, neither really matters. Regardless of actual power Tien's almost always an asset to the group and Krillin's almost never one even when he's not actively being the load.

Krillin gets about ten times the screen time as Tien and in terms of accomplishments he was kind of useful in the Saiyan saga fight with Vegeta and has had some pretty decent tournament fights. That's it.

edited 1st Feb '18 1:54:46 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#76755: Feb 1st 2018 at 1:50:14 PM

I'd rather remove the illusion that Goten and Trunks would ever be relevant by removing Gotenks from the Buu Saga than shove the brats into relevance in Super.

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#76756: Feb 1st 2018 at 1:50:44 PM

He also gave away his position to Vegeta and got their ball stolen.

What exactly was he supposed to do in that situation? If he didn't hand it over Vegeta would've just killed him and taken it anyway.

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#76757: Feb 1st 2018 at 1:52:28 PM

I don't think it was an "illusion" so much that Toriyama changed his mind about what to do with them. And them being relevant makes more sense and seems less forced then trying to come up with reasons why people who should still be way weaker than them are "skilled" enough to compensate for the difference in strength.

Also, like, years have passed. They could just have Goten and Trunks mature some instead of (literally) keeping them from changing at all.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#76758: Feb 1st 2018 at 1:53:04 PM

[up][up] The problem is not that he handed the ball over it's that he flew top speed back after getting powered up by Guru because he was on a power high and gave away his location.

edited 1st Feb '18 1:53:14 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#76759: Feb 1st 2018 at 1:53:23 PM

Also, the DB fandom as a whole is kind of filled with people who proclaim that their favorite character (outside of Goku) is "owed their due." Not even just Tien. I see it a lot with Piccolo fans, Gohan fans, and especially Vegeta fanboys.

I think projecting annoyance with a subsection of the fandom onto a character is kind of silly.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#76760: Feb 1st 2018 at 1:54:39 PM

Yeah, don't hate the character because they have obnoxious fans. It's unfair to the writer (I don't say character, because they aren't real, and don't actually matter).

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#76761: Feb 1st 2018 at 1:55:28 PM

He has said that. The general fan interpretation of that is that Tien is of partially alien blood, the Three-Eyed Tribe, and that that is why Krillin technically qualifies as the strongest human.

That's not so much "general fan interpretation" as Tien fans mental gymnastics.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#76762: Feb 1st 2018 at 1:56:31 PM

I don't like Tien being an alien, but it's in the databooks apparently, and it makes more sense than Krillin being stronger than him.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#76763: Feb 1st 2018 at 2:00:14 PM

Well, its not that I don't like Tien's fans..but rather, he's just...boring. Nothing on to really latch onto outside of a few design quirks. So people keep boasting how he needs to do "more" gets very tiresome, but my logic is...What role can Tien have that's not already filled by another character? He was originally a foil and rival to Goku, but then that was quickly supplemented by Piccolo and then Vegeta sooooo...what?

Regardless of actual power Tien's almost always an asset to the group and Krillin's almost never one even when he's not actively being the load.

Since when? He got beat by a mook and had to be bailed out by Goku and then taken hostage in King Piccolo, He a beat one Saibamen, then died to Nappa in the Saiyan Saga. Meanwhile Krillin killed the remaining three by himself, and survived until Goku got there.

You can't even say "Oh he held off Cell" because that ended up being useless in the end anyway.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#76764: Feb 1st 2018 at 2:02:24 PM

Though I've made the argument myself in the past, it really isn't fair to hold the Cell thing against Tien, since it failing wasn't his fault.

Still, independent of that the moment doesn't make him out to be as strong as people like to paint him. Again, Cell wasn't hurt at all. Pushing him down is cool and all, but let's not lose sight of that.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#76765: Feb 1st 2018 at 2:05:55 PM

I know that, I'm just pointing out that using that as a "testament" to Tien's accomplishments isn't saying much because all it succeeded was delaying the inevitable. Yea, it wasn't his fault things happened how they did, but the fact remained that he only bought a few minutes at best for what was going to occur anyway.

edited 1st Feb '18 2:06:34 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#76766: Feb 1st 2018 at 2:06:04 PM

[up][up] The problem is not that he handed the ball over it's that he flew top speed back after getting powered up by Guru because he was on a power high and gave away his location.

Eh... I don't think he knew that Vegeta could sense energy, though.

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#76767: Feb 1st 2018 at 2:06:30 PM

[up][up] It was useless because Krillin broke the remote. It wasn't inevitable. It was a bunch of other people being morons (namely, Vegeta, Krillin, and Trunks) that sabotaged it all. By the odds, it should have meant something. It required a long list of bad decisions by other people for it to turn out the way it did.

His failure against King Piccolo is partially caused by massive bad luck (the jar breaking) and partially by the power gap. That being said, before he's taken hostage he was able to intervene and fly Goku out of a blast radius, so even in that battle he wasn't totally useless.

edited 1st Feb '18 2:07:59 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#76768: Feb 1st 2018 at 2:07:06 PM

Tien has some alien blood but databooks still list him as a human. And no, it makes no sense for him to be stronger than Krillin.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#76769: Feb 1st 2018 at 2:07:54 PM

The point I'm making is that pointing out a few token moments of usefulness and competence doesn't suddenly equate to Tien being that much more competent than Krillin like you're implying. If you really want to split hairs, neither of them are that useful in the grand scheme of things.

edited 1st Feb '18 2:08:31 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#76770: Feb 1st 2018 at 2:08:51 PM

Tien barely gets any screentime, so he barely gets any chance to shine. That's different from Krillin, who has shedloads of screentime and is almost always either entirely useless or actively the load.

You're right that neither are really that important in the grand scheme of things. But one of those people is in the top, what, 6 characters in DB in terms of screentime and the other is not.

edited 1st Feb '18 2:11:45 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#76771: Feb 1st 2018 at 2:11:48 PM

You know, you can literally say the same thing about Tien in that most of his screentime is being useless as well. You're trying so hard to defend this character as useful.

You're right that neither are really that important in the grand scheme of things. But one of those people is in the top, what, 6 characters in DB in terms of screentime and the other is not.

It's almost like he doesn't serve much of a purpose and is sidelined for more important characters or something.

edited 1st Feb '18 2:13:14 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#76772: Feb 1st 2018 at 2:13:18 PM

Tien is useless a lot, to be sure. But his efforts are never counterproductive, and he does well by the amount of screentime he's got.

Krillin is the same except he often is counterproductive and considering the amount of screentime he has that's pretty annoying.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#76773: Feb 1st 2018 at 2:14:41 PM

We really need a better supporting cast.

edited 1st Feb '18 2:14:51 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#76774: Feb 1st 2018 at 2:15:35 PM

Or a supporting cast that gets treated better. Or a smaller supporting cast, since half of these people have no reason to turn up to any fight at all, and we could use their screentime for other purposes (and yes, I am including Tien in terms of people who have no reason to turn up to fights).

edited 1st Feb '18 2:16:26 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#76775: Feb 1st 2018 at 2:16:48 PM

[up][up][up]The only time you can say Krillin was "counterproductive" is not deactivating 18, and guess what, he admits that was a stupid move. Any other moments are ones that are mostly out of Krillin's control. Are you really going to hold moments like that against him?

Especially since you just defended Tien from the same thing?

[up][up] There's nothing wrong with the supporting cast, it's just that some of them stick around long after they served their purpose and just end up being background objects.

edited 1st Feb '18 2:18:03 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.

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