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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#76726: Feb 1st 2018 at 12:15:52 PM

I like it because of how dark and out-of-place it is. The Future Trunks arc doesn't feel like a Dragon Ball arc, and I think that's to its strengths. Same with the Tournament of Power. I also wouldn't get rid of SSB, I love its design too much. What I would do is have SSG be stronger than SSB, with Goku having just gotten a taste of godly power and he and Vegeta need to train up to the level. Vegeta can still have Blue 2, but God can replace Kaioken Blue for Goku.

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#76727: Feb 1st 2018 at 12:20:27 PM

I have to agree with whoever said that the TOP shouldn't have been for the fate of the universe. Turning it into a friendly competition with no real stakes would solve a lot of the arc's problems, namely the tonal dissonance between the circumstances and the attitudes expressed by the fighters, and the constant sandbagging from Goku.

As for the team, I'd swap out Tien and Roshi for Goten and Trunks, but... nah, my boy Krillin's staying in. And Freeza would be swapped out for Buu, since there'd be no reason to seek help from Goku's worst enemy if the fate of the universe isn't being threatened.

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#76728: Feb 1st 2018 at 12:34:52 PM

Your favoritism for Krillin doesn't justify him being in. Especially since, as Goku put it, he's only good at running away.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#76729: Feb 1st 2018 at 12:39:14 PM

If we say no Freeza, it's either Krillin or Tien for that spot in terms of pure power.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#76730: Feb 1st 2018 at 12:43:39 PM

[up][up] No, but the circumstances I introduced would. I said that the TOP arc would have been better if it was just a friendly competition (with maybe a wish on the Super Dragon Balls offered as a prize to the winning team). If the stakes weren't so high, nobody would even think to bring back Freeza.

So we'd have Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo, #18, #17, Goten, Trunks and Buu. There'd still be one spot left over for Kriller - who can do more than just run away, as Shosa and Majora can attest to.

[up] Yeah, exactly.

edited 1st Feb '18 12:45:16 PM by TyeDyeWildebeest

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#76731: Feb 1st 2018 at 12:52:08 PM

I would say that between the two Tien is easily the better candidate though, in terms of power, skills, and general competence.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#76732: Feb 1st 2018 at 1:05:32 PM

That depends, are we going by fan interpretation, or we actually going by how the manga worked? Because if its the latter, Tien would be better, if it's the former, Krillin logically should be.

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#76733: Feb 1st 2018 at 1:14:44 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I could've sworn Toriyama said once in an interview that Krillin is the strongest human.

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#76734: Feb 1st 2018 at 1:25:01 PM

He has said that. The general fan interpretation of that is that Tien is of partially alien blood, the Three-Eyed Tribe, and that that is why Krillin technically qualifies as the strongest human.

Because from the Manga, Krillin retired while Tien kept training. And Tien was already probably stronger than him in the Cell Saga (not definitive, simply probable).

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#76735: Feb 1st 2018 at 1:27:27 PM

I wouldn't want to get rid of Frieza. He's been a consistently enjoyable part of the arc.

This song needs more love.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#76736: Feb 1st 2018 at 1:28:41 PM

I see no reason to believe that Tien was "probably stronger than him by the Cell arc" what exactly are you basing that on?

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#76737: Feb 1st 2018 at 1:30:52 PM

I just got the impression. I mean, Tien does plow Semi-Perfect Cell into the ground for a good long while, so why didn't Krillin whip out the Kienzan on Cell at some point? (He only does so in the anime after he becomes perfect) We know the disc can punch way above its weight. I'd just think that if Krillin thought it would work and wasn't going to blow up 18, he would try to kill Cell instead.

Either way, even if Krillin was stronger I have trouble believing he was so much stronger that 7 years of Tien training and Krillin slacking couldn't make up the difference.

edited 1st Feb '18 1:32:44 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#76738: Feb 1st 2018 at 1:33:35 PM

This is why I don't want to bother with either Krillin or Tien, let them be fodder :V

Oh yea, this bring me to a 5th change that I just thought of. I would lower the amount of TOP participants to 5 per universe instead of 10. That way, less character bloat and it still works because the only three relevant characters from the main rival universes are just Jiren, Toppo, and Dypso anyway.

So it'd be like:

  • Universe 7: Goku, Gohan, Vegeta,Freeza and Gotenks (They would diffuse obviously, but Zeno would probably allow it)
  • Universe 6: Hit, Cabba, Caulifa, Kale, and Frost.
  • Universe 11: Jiren, Toppo, Dypso, That human commando guy, and someone else who's name I can't recall.

And just keep all of the relevant fighters from the other universes.

EDIT: I replaced Buu with Freeza because if Buu already participates in the Universe 6 tournament, then it's easier to justify him not being here at least.

[up] So basically this the standard "Krillin doesn't deserve to be stronger than Tien" common Fanon I see thrown around huh.

edited 1st Feb '18 1:36:02 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#76739: Feb 1st 2018 at 1:34:33 PM

Tien didn't hurt Cell at all doing that, he was just pushing him down, so it's a terrible example.

Has there even been any indication that Tien's training could make up the kind of ground he lost on Krillin? Like, at all?

Although I will say this, if in this hypothetical scenario the tournament is just for fun, might as well go full on nostalgia with it, because at least then it wouldn't matter. Roshi, Yamcha, Chiaotzu, Tien, Krillin, nothing is at stake bringing them along so the decisions seem less forced and stupid.

edited 1st Feb '18 1:36:01 PM by LSBK

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#76740: Feb 1st 2018 at 1:36:23 PM

I find it a little weird that Tien is weaker than Krillen considering the latter has been retired for years while the former is still training strong.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#76741: Feb 1st 2018 at 1:36:45 PM

That still runs into the problem of sidelining characters who haven't been developed much at all, ya know like Goten or Trunks :V

[up] Tien hasn't been through nowhere near the amount of shit Krillin has and the latter had his potential unlocked by Guru. It's very easy to believe him being stronger.

edited 1st Feb '18 1:37:27 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#76742: Feb 1st 2018 at 1:39:55 PM

Also, are weakening the characters as much for slaking off as Super has? Or is it more in line with how Gohan got weaker in the Buu saga?

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#76743: Feb 1st 2018 at 1:40:10 PM

[up][up]By "amount of shit" I presume you mean Krillin going to Namek and accomplishing almost nothing. Sure, he got a powerup, but Tien got training from King Kai. So while I'm willing to believe Krillin has a lead on him after the Namek arc, I cannot believe he got a seven year lead in terms of power.

edited 1st Feb '18 1:40:27 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#76744: Feb 1st 2018 at 1:42:54 PM

You can believe what you want, I'm only going by what the story shows us. And Toriyama even said that Krillin is the strongest human. You don't have to like it, but that's how it is. Tien ain't shit, deal with it. :V

[down] And Tien spent almost half the tournament doing nothing and got eliminated in a rather stupid way

edited 1st Feb '18 1:43:56 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#76745: Feb 1st 2018 at 1:42:56 PM

Krillin also got himself eliminated within the first five minutes, so he didn't exactly prove himself as worthy of being included. tongue

edited 1st Feb '18 1:44:13 PM by Lionheart0

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#76746: Feb 1st 2018 at 1:45:03 PM

Well, I did say logically. (note, I don't actually have an issue with Krillin getting knocked out before he because of the setting, but it the way it was done was stupid, and Tien's elimination wasn't much better.)

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#76747: Feb 1st 2018 at 1:45:35 PM

If we're "going by what the story shows us" Krillin was getting hurt by bullets in Ro F. Something Goku was able to survive. When we first met him.

Krillin ain't shit. Let's face it, aside from that one time he killed 3 Saibamen, he's never really been shit in a crisis situation. Even when it's his turn to do stuff in the Namek arc, he proves almost worse than useless.

edited 1st Feb '18 1:46:58 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#76748: Feb 1st 2018 at 1:46:47 PM

[up][up]Oh I know. In the grand scheme of things, neither exactly had a good showing, certainly not enough that I'd argue for either to remain for.

edited 1st Feb '18 1:47:04 PM by Lionheart0

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#76749: Feb 1st 2018 at 1:46:55 PM

By "amount of shit" I presume you mean Krillin going to Namek and accomplishing almost nothing.

That's not really fair. He saved Dende's life, remember?

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#76750: Feb 1st 2018 at 1:48:02 PM

He's a coward, that's been established well.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.

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