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slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#76676: Jan 31st 2018 at 5:00:44 PM

How Piccolo & by extension Buu were treated in that arc is a crime.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#76677: Jan 31st 2018 at 5:02:17 PM

Oh, and I'm going to throw in another thing. No Super Saiyan Blue, definitely not one movie after Super Saiyan God. SSG looks better, there was no reason to move on to Blue so quickly. Actually, you know what? No SSB ever. Just go straight from SSG to Ultra Instinct. What would change at all?

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#76678: Jan 31st 2018 at 5:04:36 PM

[up] Dragon Ball has been discrediting and mocking badasses since its inception, it is not too much of a surprise as this point.

edited 31st Jan '18 5:05:27 PM by GAP

"Mai waifu."
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#76679: Jan 31st 2018 at 5:06:47 PM

Meh, it was cool, SSG got plenty of bad press at the beggining ("it is just Kaioken"). Also, the manga has made Blue into something respectable.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#76680: Jan 31st 2018 at 5:08:08 PM

Kaioken is the best looking powerup to date so I don't know why people were complaining.

Blue just looks hugely tacky.

edited 31st Jan '18 5:08:27 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#76681: Jan 31st 2018 at 5:11:01 PM

5 changes I would make to Dragon Ball Super.

  • Super Saiyan God becomes the sole God form Goku and Vegeta use for the majority of Super. When Goku eventually gets Ultra Instinct Omen, Vegeta will get Super Saiyan Blue as his personal upgrade. Super Saiyan Rose would just be Goku Black's version of Super Saiyan God, with pink aura and base form hair. Future Trunk's will get Super Saiyan Rage after performing the God ritual, and the reason for its appearance will be due to his half-human heritage.

  • Frieza can still get a his golden form, but he'd be revived during the 3 year timeskip the main characters spend training for Androids 19 and 20. This gives him almost 10 years to train, which is more satisfying to me than spending only 4 months on it.

  • For the Champa Arc; Monaka IS a fighter, but he 's still too weak to win and loses to Botamo in the first fight. Piccolo then fights and defeats Botamo and Frost, before losing to Magetta. Buu fights Magetta and wins, but loses to Cabba because he is a Super Saiyan 2 and incredibly strong. The rest of the tournament plays out as it did in canon, except Vegeta's mentorship of Cabba comes from his use of Super Saiyan God. Yes, Goku doesn't get a win.

  • Future Trunks and Vegeta kill Goku Black together with a Father-Son Galick Gun, while Goku defeats Future Zamasu with the Evil Containment Wave. No fusion shenanigans, no need to asspull a way to write FT out of the plot. Plus all that training actually matters.

  • The Trio Dedangers , Universe 4's hidden fighters, and The Maiden Squadron are Super Saiyan God level. Universe 7 has 5 God level fighters, so I think spreading the love around is a little fair.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#76682: Jan 31st 2018 at 5:13:59 PM

[up] The problem with your last point is that God Level fighters can pretty much only be defeated by Goku and Vegeta. That means there's much less for the supporting cast to do, and it would also stretch credulity in terms of stamina (not that the To P hasn't done that regardless but still).

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#76683: Jan 31st 2018 at 5:20:10 PM

The supporting cast will presumably be fighting the weaker members on the other teams, and Goku and Vegeta like to sandbag against weaker foes anyway.

And what about Goku and Vegeta being the only ones who can beat god level fighters? I clearly said their team had 5 of them alone.

edited 31st Jan '18 5:21:06 PM by VeryMelon

TwistedGear Don't know how to pilot this thing Since: Jun, 2014
Don't know how to pilot this thing
#76684: Jan 31st 2018 at 5:27:30 PM

Actually, forget what I said. This is a page topper, so let's continue this thing from the last page because it's more interesting than what I was talking about:

5 Things You Would Change About Dragonball Super (if you were forced to accept its continued existence and syndication regardless of your present ability to alter its content).

edited 31st Jan '18 5:29:36 PM by TwistedGear

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#76685: Jan 31st 2018 at 5:29:45 PM

I use "God" level because people usually understand what you mean when you say it. I suppose I could have saisd Super Saiyan God level instead.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#76686: Jan 31st 2018 at 5:34:38 PM

Frieza can still get a his golden form, but he'd be revived during the 3 year timeskip the main characters spend training for Androids 19 and 20. This gives him almost 10 years to train, which is more satisfying to me than spending only 4 months on it.

If Frieza came back then, he'd immediately rush to Earth to kill Goku just like he did before. It took him a long time to learn anything resembling patience.

One Strip! One Strip!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#76687: Jan 31st 2018 at 5:34:42 PM

Changes to make to Super?

1. Cut out the Battle of Gods and Resurrection F adaptations, and just treat the movies themselves as backstory.

2. Infinite Zamasu gets Mafuba'd (like sucking gas up with a dustbuster) and sealed away before he can Shoot the Shaggy Dog. If this is the last we're gonna see of Trunks he might as well get sent off with a smile, as hilarious as just casually destroying his whole world is. Zen-o's dangerousness is set up via a different method.

3. Tournament of Power shows us more fighting between the other universes instead of "Universe 7 vs. all-comers (with half-time performance by Hit and the U6 Saiyans)" like we got. Not saying we should get episodes devoted to two random nobodies fighting, but in such a free-for-all tournament I expect more shots of other universes fighting each other, some off-screen eliminations, crossfire, and occasional interference.

And that's all I can really care enough to think about. A more invested viewer can probably come up with a better list, but this is mine.

edited 31st Jan '18 5:54:56 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#76688: Jan 31st 2018 at 5:36:59 PM

[up][up]He rushed to Earth when he got his gold form, which would take him years to get instead of months under my change.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#76689: Jan 31st 2018 at 5:44:59 PM

I honestly can't think of much especially stuff that hasn't already been stated.

I'd definitely make the universe competitors less scrubs & if they have to be then play up how Goku is a monstrous unstoppable juggernaut & everyone else is struggling to survive against him.

The problem with this tournament is that everyone is treated as an obstacle to overcome rather than fellow heroes with their own stories.

[up] Frieza showed enough patience to unlock Golden after all.

edited 31st Jan '18 5:45:29 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#76690: Jan 31st 2018 at 9:00:06 PM

Zen-o's dangerousness is set up via a different method.

The Tournament of Power could be the introduction to that side of Zeno. We don't see him that much beforehand anyway, so it wouldn't be like we really need to see him destroy a universe before we see him destroying planets for a fun to believe he's uncaring enough to do it.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#76691: Jan 31st 2018 at 9:14:42 PM

Controversial opinion: I like the Future Trunks arc being a Shoot the Shaggy Dog story. That's one thing I wouldn't change.

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#76692: Jan 31st 2018 at 10:19:11 PM

Ya know what would be great? Combining Kaioken with Super Saiyan God. Unlike Blue, God has regen which could be of use when it comes to Kaioken's life drain, probably canceling each other out and giving Goku no drawbacks. Though it would be confusing how it would look considering Kaioken buffs up the muscles and God slims 'em down.

DarkHunter from New Mexico Since: Jan, 2001
#76693: Jan 31st 2018 at 10:31:13 PM

Kaio-ken amplifies whatever the user's native powers are.

If Super Saiyan God slims you down, then, logically, Kaio-ken would increase the slimming down, making Goku very skinny looking.tongue

edited 31st Jan '18 10:31:31 PM by DarkHunter

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#76694: Jan 31st 2018 at 11:22:40 PM

I would have had F Trunks cut off Fused Zamasu's hand. Losing his time ring, Zamasu becomes an immortal time paradox, with time itself being destroyed around him. The heroes escape and return as before. The timeline effectively reset itself when they escaped, the only difference being that Goku, Zamasu and Trunks never existed in this timeline. His presence (and the time machine) would be a paradox, forcing them to return to the main timeline. Trunks will have saved his future completely, but have no place in it.

edited 31st Jan '18 11:25:12 PM by Zeromaeus

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#76695: Feb 1st 2018 at 5:06:26 AM

Short 126 summary. Light/misleading spoilers. Either this episode goes exactly the same way as the last episode, or we have an Anilaza situation where the episode preview actually only covers the events leading up to that episode.

Heavy spoilers for 127. Looks like Vegeta beats Toppo next episode and 17 risks his life trying to help Goku and Vegeta out against Jiren.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#76696: Feb 1st 2018 at 5:30:00 AM

Five changes, huh?

1. Cut off everything before Champa arc, and treat this as the continuation of the movies.

2. Freeza is not actually stronger than SSB Goku. He needs to use Golden form just to keep up with Base Goku and get decimated by SSB.

3. Piccolo doesn't fight Frost. Either that or Frost reverts to a first form to preserve energy. This is the fight where the Super power level issues started ramping up.

4. Goku doesn't job, or lets his guard down nearly as often. Because I mean, seriously come on.

5. Tenshinhan is out of the TOP, Boo is in.

There are a lot more things I would change, but those are the ones on top of my head.

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#76697: Feb 1st 2018 at 5:45:17 AM

My five changes would be:

1.No God form at all. Keep SSG out of reach. The sandbagging is way too much to take take seriously.

2.The U6 Saiyans will already know about Super Saiyan, but doesn't know the forms beyond them due to less threats and actually not act like idiots when facing enemies. Kale's angst will be more justified in not being able to go Super Saiyan at all compared to the others.

3.No time limit for Potara. In fact, have Beerus be against sending the guy his life is dependent upon to the future.

4. Future is not destroyed.

5. Roshi is out of the roster. Keep Buu. I would kick Tien out, but there isn't a replacement.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#76698: Feb 1st 2018 at 5:54:18 AM

Only five is really hard. Assuming this is only changing Super, and not touching the movies that came before it? ehhh, Resurrection F is so bad that it's hard to think of a satisfying way for things to continue from there but here goes:

1. Start from the Champa arc, directly continuing from the movies and being in continuation from them. Keep the stuff about Gohan resuming his training at that point. The 6/10/15 comparison between God Goku, Beerus and Whis is used.

2. Goku and Vegeta stay in 'Saiyan Beyond God' and don't use the old Super Saiyan forms anymore. They don't fight the weaker U 6 characters.

3. Restructure the Black arc to be more similar to the manga, in that there is one time travel. Also re-do the ending, especially not to have the replacement timeline. I'm waiting to see the end of this arc to see if Zen-Oh's danger subplot is properly resolved, or if it feels completely unnecessary and could be entirely removed from earlier arcs.

4. Make the stamina drain of Super Saiyan Blue more prominent, and have Goku/Vegeta avoid overusing it. Instead of Kaio-ken or whatever the fuck Vegeta has, they work on improving Blue and start learning Ultra Instinct gradually from Whis. Have the TOP justify them holding back by having them acknowledge they could defeat the weaker fighters, but need to hold everything in reserve for Jiren and Toppo. Have Jiren and Toppo be powerful, but not so powerful that they could easily defeat Goku/Vegeta and wipe out most of the competition - they also hold back to begin because defeating Goku/Vegeta would still be hard enough for them to lose a significant amount of stamina, and it isn't a guaranteed win for them.

5. Drop the humans from the TOP, add Goten Trunks and Boo. Actually develop these characters, and better balance screentime for Gohan and 18 as well. Kuririn acknowledges that he wasn't needed against Freeza and that he should stay behind and look after Marron so 18 can fight in the tournament. 17 doesn't get anywhere near the amount of focus and shilling he did here, and his training has made him similar to Piccolo's level instead of God or SS 3. 18 has also been training hard from the Boo arc to get to this level.

Eh... I'd need more than 5 changes, even board ones, and I'd need to really change the RF stuff to be happy with it.

edited 1st Feb '18 5:54:57 AM by Saiga

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#76699: Feb 1st 2018 at 6:00:05 AM

Oh wait, I was supposed to do five?

1. Trunks beats Zamasu by removing the time ring via sword to hand
2. Trunks' timeline both is and isn't destroyed in a way that fixes everything, but not for Trunks because being Trunks is suffering
3. Picollo fights first in the Champa arc
4. SS God gets used more (no Blue in Freeza arc/debuts in Champa arc)
5. Half of the ToP episodes (recruitment episodes particularly) just gone

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#76700: Feb 1st 2018 at 6:03:04 AM

In addition to removing SSB altogether and having God be the final Super Saiyan form period (seriously that ship has fucking sailed, no more damn Super Saiyan forms) I'd definitely say remove a lot of the stakes from arcs because it makes them tonally inconsistent. Super's best stuff has continuously been the stuff like the Yamcha baseball episode. Honestly it would probably be better if it just went all out and was a slice of life gag show (wouldn't that be going full circle).

The Goku Black arc and the To P arc have really shown a lot of Super's weaknesses, since it's never really brave enough to change the status quo from what fans barely remember and therefore any big stakes plot just really sort of falls flat. Ironically it was the middle gap in between Ro F and Goku Black that was probably the best Super stuff.

If you wanted a DB that could still do serious plots the Buu arc basically killed that in the second half. That ship has also long since sailed.

edited 1st Feb '18 6:08:30 AM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"

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