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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#76376: Jan 27th 2018 at 7:27:21 PM

Cell used it twice just in the manga, and he had a much bigger version as well.

Freeza's also done it, but he weaponized it.

LSBK I'm surprised you made an exception for the FF used against Jiren. I thought that scene was particularly bad, due to how drawn out it was and how closely it mirrored the use against Perfect Cell except without any damage at all and the characters acting surprised about it or expecting it to matter when Jiren has already beaten better.

I really liked 17 and Freeza teaming up to beat base Toppo, and I'm fine with 17 being as strong as he is, since it was previously established that he's around as strong as Blue Goku. Y'all just didn't want to take the episode at face value, for some reason.

For starters, we literally had the head writer tell us not to take it that way, and made several statements to lower our expectations of his power. Then we had most of this tournament having him fight characters who weren't that impressive.

Secondly, people have had a problem with the idea of 17 being that strong even when they DID take that original episode at face value because it's completely horseshit.

edited 27th Jan '18 7:29:46 PM by Saiga

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#76377: Jan 27th 2018 at 7:28:56 PM

That was stupid, but I thought it was dramatically appropriate at least. It was an obvious callback to when he did it against Cell, but that's better than just him going "Oh, there's a bug, FINAL FLASH!!!" like he's been doing.

edited 27th Jan '18 7:31:10 PM by LSBK

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#76378: Jan 27th 2018 at 7:29:27 PM

Nothing, absolutely nothing will beat Vegeta's Final Flash against Perfect Cell.

Everything about that moment was simply perfect & no matter what Super will never be able to replicate that magic ever.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#76379: Jan 27th 2018 at 7:29:49 PM

Final Flash against Jiren had good music, which all the other times in Super were lacking. Also the fake out with Jiren on the floor until he's suddenly in Vegeta's face.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#76380: Jan 27th 2018 at 7:36:38 PM

I thought Vegeta's Final Flash against Jiren was about as good as his Final Flash against Cell, but I'm not super in love with either moment. It's not like him using it against Cell has any more dramatic weight than him using it against Jiren, especially once Cell revealed that he was faking his injuries.

I'd say that Vegeta's first Galick Gun against Goku, his Majin transformation, his beat-down on Black, the Father-Son Galick Gun, and his transformation into Blue 2 are all better Vegeta moments than his Final Flash against Cell.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#76381: Jan 27th 2018 at 7:37:45 PM

Cell wasn't faking his injuries, he really DID have a huge hole in him

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#76382: Jan 27th 2018 at 7:48:12 PM

Yeah, but he was faking how bad of an injury a huge hole in him is, and was holding back so much power that he totally could've tanked it, if he didn't underestimate Vegeta.

edited 27th Jan '18 7:48:54 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#76383: Jan 27th 2018 at 8:06:10 PM

The second is definitely speculation. That he was later revealed to be hiding power isn't relevant, it's still a pretty big achievement to cause so much damage to Cell's body at the level of power he was using to completely kick Vegeta's ass.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#76384: Jan 27th 2018 at 8:10:34 PM

It accomplished about as much as Grade 3 Trunks did. Maybe a little bit more. It was cool, but I don't think it quite cracks top 5 Vegeta moments.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#76385: Jan 27th 2018 at 8:13:06 PM

Definitely more, Grade III didn't even hit Cell once.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#76386: Jan 27th 2018 at 8:17:19 PM

He took a beating in it, which allowed Krillin to get Vegeta out of there, even if Cell allowed it. Grade 3 is also a much more important moment for Trunks' character than the Final Flash is for Vegeta's, so I think it evens out.

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#76387: Jan 27th 2018 at 8:17:31 PM

The only thing Grade III acomplished was to give Broly a cool design.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#76388: Jan 27th 2018 at 8:18:21 PM

It was one of the most epic spectacles in the series.

Definitely one his best moments & among the pinnacle of Vegeta jobbing.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#76389: Jan 27th 2018 at 8:20:22 PM

[up][up][up] I don't consider that a Grade III achievement, just a Trunks one. And that's not impressive for the same reasons that the Final Flash scene is.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#76390: Jan 27th 2018 at 8:28:41 PM

It looked cool. It accomplished jack shit, except maybe catching Cell off guard for a second. I honestly don't know why people like it so much apart from looking cool.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#76391: Jan 27th 2018 at 8:29:34 PM

I mean, it was really cool, but it didn't really have any deeper meaning for Vegeta's character. It's just him raging out when he's overpowered, which we've seen before and since.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#76392: Jan 27th 2018 at 8:30:04 PM

Because it looked cool.

What else do we need?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Rynnec Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#76393: Jan 27th 2018 at 8:30:13 PM

It's probably how awesome the scene was executed, with the music (American dub) and Cell's reaction (original) standing out in particular.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#76394: Jan 27th 2018 at 8:30:53 PM

If I'm being honest, the Final Flash is one of those things I don't think even deserves a name, but here we are. But if they have to stick a name on something, at least save it for the actual big, dramatic moments.

edited 27th Jan '18 8:31:49 PM by LSBK

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#76395: Jan 27th 2018 at 8:31:14 PM

I mean, it's a really fucking cool moment and it's been his go to Ultimate in video games for well over a decade now.

Even if Super uses them terribly, it's not to blame for tacking on these attacks to the characters. The video games needed a moveset, so they took the characters using their best moves.

edited 27th Jan '18 8:31:49 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#76396: Jan 27th 2018 at 8:31:27 PM

This arc has put to rest that if the humans really want to catch up, they need to be training with wildlife like 17 has. tongue

edited 27th Jan '18 8:31:36 PM by Lionheart0

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#76397: Jan 27th 2018 at 8:32:26 PM

The piano that played during it just nailed it to perfection.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#76398: Jan 27th 2018 at 8:35:13 PM

I don't think anyone was trying to say it had anything to do with his character.

Anyway, 125: 17 vs base Toppo was pretty bad. Why was Freeza out of the fight for so long? Even when they're down to two fights going on they still can't balance the characters for shit. GOD Toppo looks cool, though I dislike the anime making 'Destruction' so much of a thing but also not really explaining it adequately. It's also funny that Golden Freeza can damage Toppo way more than Kaio-ken Blue Goku could. I also agree that the 17 shilling has gone too far, although I thought that from his debut episode so y'know. It's gone even further beyond! But yeah, nice that Freeza got manhandled by Toppo. Damn shame that 17 has to be exempted from that.

Hah, wow, another pointless FF from Vegeta. Shit's like clockwork. At least Jiren stopping it with his eyes was cool.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#76399: Jan 27th 2018 at 8:46:54 PM

I Liked how 17's strategy was mostly running, not due to any spite, but simply because with the fact that he can keep up energy attacks indefinitely, so trapping Toppo in an endless barrage and wasting time was a good strategy.

GOD Toppo too stronk. Plz nerf.

In regards to the original Final Flash, the best thing that can be said about it is that it legitimately hurt Cell, even if only for a moment. It's clear from the look on his face before it hit him that it was for real, and I was under the impression that if Vegeta had gotten all of it, he'd have actually killed Cell...you know, until the main core issue comes up.

One Strip! One Strip!
Deadpoolrocks Since: Sep, 2010
#76400: Jan 27th 2018 at 8:53:00 PM

its really looking like 17 will out last vegeta too which i find hilarious. Man the directors really love 17


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