I mean, why not organelles instead of cells? I can totally buy S-organelles being part of a Sayian's cellular biology that can be transferred through sperm.
edited 21st Jan '18 3:54:38 PM by Kayeka
Except it was never "warrior that shows up every 1000 years" that was a mistranslation. The legend was that the last one was from a 100 years ago. Again, as soon as it was shown that Super Saiyan was a thing that was actually possible, they never pretended as if it wasn't possible for all Saiyans.
It's been brought up before, but the fandom has always treated Super Saiyan as something much more mystical and mysterious than the series itself has.
edited 21st Jan '18 3:56:50 PM by LSBK
Well, potentially all Saiyans, except the only Saiyans who were around were both exceptional (Goku and Vegeta). Then there were the three Half-Saiyans, one who had extreme trouble with it (Gohan) and one who gets possibly the best unlocking scene in the series for base SSJ (F. Trunks).
Now, Gohan and K. Trunks do make it a bit less special, sure. But that's no reason to double down on it being less special.
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"Oh, then the anime did it way fucking better then.
I shall revise my opinion: SSJ was really special moment when Goku got it but it then became the same thing over and over again really fast and all S-cells are doing is hammering in that Gohan going SSJ 2 was basically the last really narratively satisfying powerup in the series.
edited 21st Jan '18 4:02:36 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Yeah, basically the entire flashback was done better in the anime, with Future Gohan getting a nice last hurrah as opposed to being unceremoniously killed off-screen.
But seriously, "specialness" never really bothered me too much. It's the really bad explanation.
edited 21st Jan '18 4:02:02 PM by Kayeka
History of Trunks is right up there with Bardock Father of Goku as the really good side stories that help flesh out the Dragonball world and the expanded Dragonball canon would be much, much poorer for their loss.
Also, both probably have some of the best character work in the series.
edited 21st Jan '18 4:04:47 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"It's only a bad explanation if you decide to confine Saiyan biology and reproduction to real world things. That in itself is a mistake on your part.
I'm not arguing that Toriyama isn't bad with real world biology, I'm saying that his world isn't real, and he can make the roles for his fictional races biological processes however he wants. That he might use some real life concepts, like cells, doesn't change that.
edited 21st Jan '18 4:06:49 PM by LSBK
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If the guy said "magic" I would've been okay. If he came up with a semi-plausible scientific explanation with fictional elements, I'd be okay. This shit doesn't work if any of the people involved in it are human. Which they are.
No explanation would have been way better. Which is what we had until Toriyama decided to open his gap weeks ago.
edited 21st Jan '18 4:09:48 PM by Kayeka
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"Oh no, if we have this in the series suddenly a bunch of our other powerups look shitty and not narratively satisfying!"
Quite frankly, I'm not sure I agree with the logic of hammering down good emotional moments just so pedestrian moments aren't overshadowed.
By that logic Gohan should have gone SSJ 2 with no problem since Vegeta and Goku reached that stage off screen between Cell and Buu.
Like, I appreciate a series having consistency, but you don't try to make your good moments consistent with your bland ones, you try to make your bland ones better.
edited 21st Jan '18 4:11:31 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"(I hold a degree in Biology, I know most of the stuff I say in the topic is far from common knowledge)
Sperm is just a DNA USB than an egg uses to have an entire genome rather than just an unpaired half, and thus starts growing into an embryo upon getting that in.
On the other hand, there is plenty of epigenetic stuff and gene expresion regulation that would make Trunks and Goten getting Super Saiyan more likely.
A gene whose expression is blocked, but stress and power level compromise that blocking mechanism, and, once broken, it is irreversible and affects the whole organism (incluiding germinal line cells), for example, would be more in line with what we know of biology. As would Cell being genetically engineered rather than being an outright chimeric being. But oh well, not every writer is a scientist.
By the way, interspecific breeding is FAR more common that it seems, and far more sucessful as well (in fact, it seems to be very important in the grand scheme of evolution). We tend to think on terms of neat boxes and pedigrees, but nature doesn't care about our categories, and purity of blood is endogamy and that is counterproductive (ask Charles II of Spain about the benefits of pureblood). Just an example: Polar bears are dealing with global warming by breeding with grizzly bears. Their descendants are completely fertile, and thrive better in the current environment than "pure" polar bears. However, due to not being "pure", some environmental scientists advocated for killing the hybrids, to avoid "polluting" the genepool. Evolution just means species change as the environment does, and trying to keep things static is being ignorant of the mechanics behind nature, even if you have a Ph D after your name.
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But humans are, and they are involved in the process of producing the half-saiyans that caused this mess in the first place.
Now see, that's the kind of explanation I could get behind.
edited 21st Jan '18 4:14:29 PM by Kayeka
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That's not what I'm arguing at all. I don't care about the other moments being 'pedestrian', I was saying Trunks looks bad for what others did so easily.
That doesn't apply to Gohan because it took Goku and Vegeta 7 years of training from the Cell arc to surpass him. And Vegeta only surpassed the rusty Gohan.
I'm fine with emotional moments when they make sense and fit in the greater context, which F Trunks' doesn't but Gohan's does.

Except Toriyama didn't really try and tie real world biology to it. He introduced a fictional biological concept, to his fictional species. Super Saiyan was never portrayed as "mystical" in nature to begin with.