Eh, Dragon Ball has always had a problem with "character does cool thing, characters on sidelines talk about how cool cool thing is", it's just always been a bit more pronounced in the tournament arcs and it's a bit more noticeable in this specific tournament arc because of the large number of commentators and length of the tournament.
Why would you do this to me? I feel betrayed on a personal level.
edited 21st Jan '18 12:58:10 PM by PushoverMediaCritic
It's a problem in this tournament arc because doing it makes it seem like nothing else of note is going on. Having all the people focus on only one fight, when another one that is frankly much more important is supposed to be going on at the same time is really noticeable. When it's just one match going on at a time, it makes sense for the people watching it to be commenting on it in some fashion.
Also, regarding my general opinion of Super, I can enjoy it as "turn your brain off" fun, but when people act like the glaring issues aren't there, I can't help but go "yes, they are." and I consider that distinct from "these issue are here, but I don't care about them/they aren't a deal breaker for me" which I think people are totally entitled to say, and I have no issue with.
edited 21st Jan '18 12:59:05 PM by LSBK
What bugs me (cha-ching) is that Roshi keeps being the first character to analyze these fights. He shouldn't even be able to see what's going on, much less distinguish whose winning, or who has the big stick. But in almost every fight in Super, Roshi has this magical ability to discern power levels.
Even in Battle of Gods he quickly puts together that Vegeta is "stronger than Goku," despite never seeing Goku fight Beerus, and despite never really seeing how strong Vegeta is. He has no basis to go off of other than, "wait, that Beerus guy kicked all of our asses, and Vegeta just clocked him! Oh my god, Vegeta > Goku!"
I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!Well, technically the majority of civilians shouldn't be able to discern any of the main character fights from the 22nd Budokai on. It's just a rule that gets relaxed to let commentation happen.
It should also be noted that Roshi has been doing fighting for a good long while longer than most U7people there; it's entirely possible that he simply knows how to discern slight changes in Ki level easier than most people, while some people like Beerus or Whis who would definitely have more experience probably care less and others like Piccolo who have similar experience are slightly more taciturn.
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"As far as I can tell, the majority of Universe 7's team has seen more combat in a week than Roshi has in his entire life, and he was out of action for decades after the King Piccolo saga and only started fighting/training recently. I can let go of the first thing because that's just suspension of disbelief, and allows the show to be entertaining. But the Roshi thing I cannot forgive.
At least let somebody else do the obligatory "that guy's really strong, stronger than Goku maybe!" comment. There's like 3-4 other characters better suited for it who've actually fought Goku at full strength and would have a better frame of reference - Vegeta, 17, Gohan, and Freeza.
And all of them needed more to do than just occasionally popping in to take out the B-listers.
edited 21st Jan '18 1:27:34 PM by Soble
I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!How much input did Toriyama have in Fighter Z beyond creating Android 21?
Cause if he has anything to say about it, Yamcha will probably just get taken out to show how strong the enemy is.
I will admit it's a funny roasting though.
One Strip! One Strip!I guess Cell and Nappa on the story as allies is an unintentional Author Saving Throw to both the Tournament of Power and Xenoverse relying too much on recaping the story.
To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.Okay, so, since it was mentioned here, I finally went and got around to reading the interview in which Tori-bot explains the S-Cells. Does this stuff count as a Voodoo Shark? Because it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I mean, the only cell, S or otherwise, children inherit from their parents is the zygote, which is largely material taken from the female parent. So it was impossible for Goten and Trunks to inherit any more S-cells then any other Saiyan, if any because I find it hard to believe that sperm can be S-cells. Seriously, I can accept a lot of bullshit from a series with a simple "it's magic" or Techno Babble explanation, but if you try to come up with a sort-of scientific explanation, please don't trip over basic high-school biology.
Other thoughts: episode 124 was quite okay, though I'll join everyone in voicing annoyance with the peanut gallery. I get that Toei are cheap bastards and need to carve out extra minutes with as little animation as possible, but this is both lazy and ruins the flow of the fights. Dyspo was quite a fun opponent for universe 7, though, and I was cheering him on while he was beating Frieza, because Frieza can choke on his own tail. He made my list of characters I wish to appear in Fighter Z.
Also, huzzah for changing Goku's line to Gohan in Fighter Z. The original was a pretty decent joke, but just didn't belong in Goku's mouth.
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Yeah, I'd be cool with that as well, though Jiren has not exactly stolen my heart yet. As much as I enjoy the Grey-On-Serious-Steroids look, he doesn't have much of a personality, nor shown much of a unique fighting-style beyond "stand there and tank it".
Dyspo goes deep on the Fragile Speedster bit, and Toppo would make a mean grappler which the current roster seriously lacks outside of #16, but Jiren just doesn't really distinguish himself besides being stupid powerful.
Oh, right, that's another thing I was wondering about:
edited 21st Jan '18 3:03:03 PM by Kayeka
Well he has the laser punches, those faster than light punches he did with Ultra Instinct Goku, & his eye blasts as well as the lotus pose as Xenoverse is using but yeah he really needs to show off more.
Now that I think about it you can easily make thee rest of the Pride Trooper's assists characters for either Toppo or Dyspo but then that starts ripping off Ginyu.
edited 21st Jan '18 3:07:25 PM by slimcoder
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."Need I remind you that Master Roshi is roughly around 300 years old, and has been fighting for most of that time?
The only people who could have seen more action are: Beerus, Whis, Freeza, and Buu.
You could make the argument that Master Roshi hasn't spent as much time dealing with fights above a certain power threshold but that seems to matter less with Dragonball's power system then it should, especially given as flight is abolished in this tourney and therefore it falls more in Roshi's field of experience.
edited 21st Jan '18 3:10:49 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"![]()
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A moveset is not quite the same as a fighting style. It's part of it, but it's not all of it. In a manga/game, a fighting style is supposed to be a huge part of a character as presented to the audience. If done well, you can basically have a good look at the type of character they are just from observing their style.
From memory, I believe that Goku Black was a good example. When he first made his appearance in full view, I remember thinking "Huh. He sure doesn't fight like Goku. The fug is this guy?"
Jiren just doesn't really do that. Or much of anything. I hope it'll show a bit more in the next bunch of episodes, but so far he seems more like an object than an actual character.
edited 21st Jan '18 3:16:54 PM by Kayeka
Sounds like that problem's on your end for applying real world science to a fictional alien species.
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Good points, good points.
They really got simple or lazy if ya want to call it for Jiren. At least Hit has a distinct stance, fight-style, & of course the time-skip.
They really need to up it with the spectacle in regards to Jiren.
edited 21st Jan '18 3:19:55 PM by slimcoder
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."Hit's fighting style is great. The way he extends the knuckle, reminds me a lot of like, the sort of pressure point fighting stuff you sometimes see in fantasy martial arts, like it's an assassin discipline.
For Jiren, if I was writing him I would either give him a classical style like Arhat Fist (because he meditates all the time) or some style based around Superman and western comics stuff. The Rapid-Fire Fisticuffs seems a bit out of place TBH.
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"If you want to get nitpicky about biology, it's a genetic miracle that Gohan is fertile and able to have children at all, given that his parents are two completely different species. Hell, apes and monkeys aren't even in the same family of animals! S-Cells are the least of your worries regarding Dragon Ball and biology.
Regarding the Pride Troopers in Fighterz: I could see an argument for Kunshi being an assist for Dyspo, but I'd rather Kahseral be the Ginyu of U11 as the focal character to put all the other Pride Troopers around.
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No, the thing is that Toriyama tried to apply real-world sciences to a fictional alien species, and failed so badly it tears my Suspension of Disbelief. I was perfectly fine with Super Saiyan when it was still "magic with vague ties to Saiyan genetics", but this much more detailed explanation is such total bollocks that you'd need to come up with an entire fictional science of developmental biology to make up for it.
Like Reality, Unless Noted is still full effect, and nothing demonstrated or explained in the series proper or by additional Word of God can pair this with what we know about genetic, cellular or molecular biology.
And I'm quite okay with that, as long as they don't attempt to explain it badly.
edited 21st Jan '18 3:42:26 PM by Kayeka

Yamcha's never lives it down.
Also, Cell being an ass compared with Frieza is not something I expected.
To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.