There are no stakes because this is a midquel and even then none of the characters are acting in a way that communicates to the audience that they care about them. The Saiyan girls are criticized do to their sloppy execution. Freeza's inclusion doesn't make sense in light of the fact that the weak human characters are allowed on the team (so where's Yamcha?) , and Roshi's performance is actually ridiculous unless you're taken in by old man nostalgia.
Goku never sandbagged with Frieza or Cell. More to the point, before when he did sandbag he stopped as soon as it became apparent he couldn't get away with it, he didn't just keep letting his ass get kicked. And he was very much capable of understanding the gravity of the situations he was in.
With Buu the reason he didn't finish him off the first time was because he wanted the younger generation to be able to defend the world, and later on against Kid Buu he regrets not fusing with Vegeta and suggests teleporting Gohan when he's revived. People talk as if Goku always puts his enjoyment of fighting ahead of everything else and it simply isn't true, or at least wasn't.
edited 15th Jan '18 4:37:47 PM by LSBK
I don't agree that the tournament of power was handled well, but I do agree that the Post-Freeza power system (heck, the Post-Saiyan Saga power system) tended to make fights a lot less interesting then they should have been.
That being a casualty I don't really mind.
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People keep saying "Roshi's ridiculous" but he hasn't actually done a lot in the tournament that breaks power rules really. He took out one guy who we didn't really have a clear read on how powerful he was (a guy from a weak universe, also) and used the Mafuba a couple times.
Like, this isn't Krillin against Goku Blue type shenanigans going on.
edited 15th Jan '18 4:37:37 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"Wait he didn't sandbag against Frieza, Cell, or Buu. He did against Majin Vegeta though that was for more complex reasons than just a good fight.
About the fight pacing I think some fights like with the Saiyan girls went on too far or got too much focus while other fights like with Anilza or Vegat vs Toppo should have gotten more focus.
edited 15th Jan '18 4:36:53 PM by slimcoder
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."Goku may not have sandbagged against Cell but he did give him a senzu bean and basically every member of the heroic cast save Tien were either useless or hugely counterproductive during the Cell saga at one point or another.
I think the To P's real problem is that it just doubles down on the late Z power system at the end of the day despite token efforts to get around it. Dragonball just has waaay too much baggage to try and make the fights tactical.
edited 15th Jan '18 4:40:11 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"As said, the arc undermines it's own premise by having the characters really care that much about getting erased. 17 is all "whatever" and 18 has to be coerced with money. They keep saying how serious things are, but nobody takes it seriously.
As for everything else you said, all of that is subjective and up to debate. Most of these characters introduced are very under developed and therefore not very interesting outside of a handful.
Most of the fights are pretty nonsensical with characters showing off more competence than their power implies (Roshi and 17) or just characters acting incredibly foolish to create "tension".
Animation has been hit or miss outside of a few standout episodes.
I don't hate this arc,I liked Ultra Instinct. Freeza is entertaining despite being massively overused, but I do find it incredibly flawed and it's ultimately brought down by them. If you're enjoying it, fine but there's plenty to criticize about it.
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.https://youtu.be/x4E5hzC8Xvs?t=8m
And that's the problem, Dragon Balls. Still not sure why the cast thinks Super Shenron can overrule Zeno's power but I guess we'll have to see if that actually is the case or not.
In any case my biggest gripe is that the cast of TOP basically feels like a bunch of fodders. Sure some of them have their abstract charms but just majority of them are just lining up to get their ass kicked by U7 & U6.
For the record I think this arc has been enjoyable & nowhere as shitastic as people claim it to be.
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The only one who has even talked about that is Vegeta. The cast isn't assuming that, but the audience by and large are because why wouldn't we?
The greater issue is what's to stop the Zenos from just erasing them all again, and the offending party who tried to get one over on them. Which is an issue I'm not actually hopefully about Super addressing well.
edited 15th Jan '18 4:42:16 PM by LSBK
Yea, and he immediately started using Kaioken when he was getting his ass kicked.
Goku holds back when his current power is enough to beat his opponent. Him and Freeza were even before the latter used half his power at which point Goku stopped fucking around.
In Super, Goku constantly holds back even when he's being overwhelmed, which is dumb
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.![]()
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I never said it was.
There's definitely a post-Saiyan Saga battle system, since the fight with Vegeta is the last one I can think of that's settled by attrition really.
edited 15th Jan '18 4:46:04 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"It totally is, though. We've already seen he's ineffective without it and he hasn't shown any drawbacks to it this arc.
Nope! Most fights before it weren't settled by attrition, or only counted attrition in the final fight.
But after Vegeta we've got plenty of cases of attrition. 100% Freeza, Vegeta vs 18, Vegeta vs Perfect Cell (Cell wore him out first), Goku vs 19, Goku vs Cell, Gotenks vs Boo, Boo vs Boo
edited 15th Jan '18 4:50:08 PM by Saiga
Well, not turning on Kaioken is wasting the audience's time from an out-of-universe perspective, but from an in-universe perspective it's at least supposed to have negative affects.
No, but it does make her reasoning easier to follow.
edited 15th Jan '18 4:49:13 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"

You're not suppose to throw out logic and it's really subjective on what's interesting in a fight.