TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Dragon Ball

Go To

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#6776: Jun 15th 2014 at 5:55:06 AM

Go back to the 80s. It's a fact.

Yeah, it's a valid "excuse". The author is writing about a male-dominated sport aimed at a largely male audience. He has no reason to be writing GRRRRL PWR, and never pretended that there would be super strong women that fight along with the guys. Women are almost always introduced in this story as supporting supporting characters.

edited 15th Jun '14 5:58:17 AM by Cruherrx

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#6777: Jun 15th 2014 at 5:56:55 AM

Are we really going to start this again? Let's not start this again. I was just complaining about Gine, I didn't want it to snowball like it did and it looks like it's about to again.

edited 15th Jun '14 5:57:57 AM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#6779: Jun 15th 2014 at 3:47:02 PM

As surprised as I am that it's not already recorded, I can't pretend not to be excited.

On another note, I've heard someone describe bog as "Toriyama writing fanfiction of his own work"... er... wha?

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#6780: Jun 16th 2014 at 10:39:35 AM

A bizarre phrase, certainly. Hardcore fans are just upset because their anal-retentiveness isn't being respected.

"Getting on a plane soon to be Goku". grin

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#6781: Jun 17th 2014 at 2:37:59 AM

That's actually really easy to understand. There are a lot of ideas, plots and tropes that are done to death in fanfiction and so that person is simply saying BoG is similar to the stereotypical Dragon Ball fanfic.

BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#6782: Jun 17th 2014 at 5:53:20 AM

[up]The context was a "is bog canon" argument.

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#6783: Jun 18th 2014 at 3:20:00 AM

Then that's even easier to understand.

Comparing him writing a story based on a previously finished work to fanfiction is fairly easy to see. Especially with how people abuse that term to literally mean any piece of fiction written by a fan of something.

edited 18th Jun '14 3:20:09 AM by Saiga

mrsunshinesprinkles Forever Gorgeous from Somewhere, crying Since: Jan, 2012
Forever Gorgeous
#6784: Jun 18th 2014 at 4:07:35 AM

I take it Battle of the Gods is pretty...Skippable, then, canon status be damned? I'm following the DB Manga, but I wanna know; which films fit pretty well into the canon and/or are ridiculously kickass?

Unrelated: I want to just go all nostalgic on y'all, with a cute little anecdote; as a kid, they aired the original Dragon Ball on my local anime channel. I freaking loved it, but when I found out that there was a sequel series where Goku wasn't only and adult, but also had a super powerful transformation, my little mind was freaking blown. I remember wanting with every inch of my blood to check out this "Dragon Ball Z" show, since it looked even kick-asslier than the original Dragon Ball.

edited 18th Jun '14 4:08:29 AM by mrsunshinesprinkles

"Curry killed the pussy hoping that I could kill the hate in you" - Curry, D. "TABOO | TA13OO." TA13OO, PH, 2018
BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#6786: Jun 18th 2014 at 6:03:04 AM

[up][up]

  • Bardock: The Father of Goku takes place before Dragon Ball and is one of the most beloved specials.
  • Dead Zone takes place shortly before Raditz. Fits if you ignore Krillin being surprised about Gohan.
  • History of Trunks takes place shortly before the android saga, but I suggest watching it right before Cooler to avoid spoilers. My personal favorite special.
  • Cooler's Revenge takes place during the three years training for the androids.
  • Broly, Super Android 13, and Return of Cooler take place during the ten days before the Cell Games.
  • Bojack takes place immediately after Cell.
  • Wrath of the Dragon and Battle of Gods take place before the final three episodes.

Fusion Reborn doesn't fit in canon, but it's still a must-see. Watch it during the late Buu saga.

[up] Great, my forehead's bleeding now. Do you know what a lack of self-consistency makes? A bad work.

edited 18th Jun '14 6:05:34 AM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#6787: Jun 18th 2014 at 6:04:49 AM

[up][up]On the one hand, he makes good points. On the other hand, he still comes across as a self-righteous cunt.

My various fanfics.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#6788: Jun 18th 2014 at 6:05:46 AM

Broly / Super Android 13 / Meta Cooler definitely don't take place in any of those timeframes. Especially not Super Android 13, that makes no sense. They're just out of continuity like most of the movies.

He makes some good points and some bad ones. Well, the only real good point was that you can't excuse sexism by saying it's part of the lore.

edited 18th Jun '14 6:07:43 AM by Saiga

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#6789: Jun 18th 2014 at 6:06:08 AM

Do you know what a lack of self-consistency makes? A bad work.
...No, it really doesn't. Unless we're going to say Loony Toons is the worst ever or something.

Also, you might want to try some Greek or Norse myth some time.

Did Aphrodite come from Zeus banging a Titan? Or from some dude's testicle landing in the ocean? Did she come out of a giant clam?

edited 18th Jun '14 6:07:39 AM by unnoun

BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#6790: Jun 18th 2014 at 6:07:06 AM

[up][up]I don't see how they don't fit in that timeslot.

[up]Different genres. Not applicable. And Greek/norse myths were pretty ridiculous in that regard, so I'm not defending them.

edited 18th Jun '14 6:08:25 AM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#6791: Jun 18th 2014 at 6:08:33 AM

Greek Mythology is pretty terrible though.

[up] Because no part of it matches the timeline? Super Android 13 fits in the 10 day Cell game gap the same way Lord Slug or One Piece does: it doesn't.

edited 18th Jun '14 6:08:48 AM by Saiga

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#6792: Jun 18th 2014 at 6:09:50 AM

Nah, I'm with Baffle on this one. Yeah, Looney Toons is great, but each cartoon is self-contained. The only things that need to stay consistent are that Bugs is the best, Daffy's a loser, Elmer Fudd is mentally disabled, and God hates Coyotes.

But when you're attempting to make a larger work or a world, you need to make rules and have them stick. When you become part of a larger work, even if you're making a new title within that work, you don't get to say "Fuck it all, this is MY show now", you still have to acknowledge that which was set before you.

My various fanfics.
BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#6793: Jun 18th 2014 at 6:10:21 AM

[up][up]That's the point when I watch them, anyway. That's where they make the most sense to me.

edited 18th Jun '14 6:11:26 AM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#6794: Jun 18th 2014 at 6:11:02 AM

Why shouldn't the film rebel against the series? Once, if a person wished to tell stories, they got up and told stories. Spoken aloud, these stories were ephemeral, changing with every telling. There were traditions, to be sure, but storytellers could be confident that their creative departures would not be seen as errors or betrayals but as the embellishments of a virtuoso performance.

The author wishes to explore and create, and in the age of oral tales was free to do so—no one particularly expected that the tales of Renard the Fox must be consistent with one another or complained, "Hey, when he seduced Leda, Zeus was a swan, how come he's a golden shower now?" After all, if the story of Leda can change with every telling, why expect it to still be the same when you hear a completely different story?

Oral tales are living, growing, changing things. By contrast, a written or filmed tale is dead, nailed to the page or screen, unable to change or grow, fixed permanently as it was in a single telling. The audience is permitted to change and grow, so that their perspective on the tale can alter with time, but the actual creator of the tale is denied that. Even when it comes to crafting a sequel, audiences—"geek" or "cult" audiences notoriously so—demand continuity, which is to say they demand fealty to the tyrannical reign of dead stories. It is a wonder that more creators don't rebel!

BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#6795: Jun 18th 2014 at 6:12:42 AM

[up]Here you are, bringing Greek myths into the equation again...

We support "the tyrannical reign of dead stories" because they're entertaining. Variance has the risk of ruining elements, making characters unlikable, or worse, piling on a big fat helping of Deus ex Machina which NO reader wants to hear.

edited 18th Jun '14 6:15:15 AM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#6796: Jun 18th 2014 at 6:13:56 AM

[up] They're stories.

Fiction doesn't have any rules besides the wishes of the author. That's why fiction is fiction. It's fun to pretend otherwise, but that doesn't make it true.

edited 18th Jun '14 6:15:07 AM by unnoun

BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#6797: Jun 18th 2014 at 6:17:13 AM

[up]And usually following the wishes of the author in a derivative work are the best way to make said derivative work free of mary sues and deuses and things that just make the average reader do a Flat "What".

edited 18th Jun '14 6:17:49 AM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#6798: Jun 18th 2014 at 6:17:49 AM

[up]x5 Nobody is a full power Super Saiyan, Trunks has his sword, Trunks has short hair, Trunks has his old clothes, Gohan hasn't been into the room, there's no Grade II or III, everything is at the same state it was before the arc started with the exception of Vegeta using Super Saiyan in front of people. Same thing for Cooler (except no Trunks). For Broli, it'd almost fit except that nobody saw Gohan fight in series and he's not so strong here, Vegeta and Trunks are still using Grade II, Goku/Gohan aren't full power Super Saiyans and everyday life is continuing with no mention of Cell.

[up]x6 Agreed entirely.

edited 18th Jun '14 6:18:04 AM by Saiga

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#6799: Jun 18th 2014 at 6:19:04 AM

So what about when the original author, in this case Toriyama, is involved?

BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#6800: Jun 18th 2014 at 6:23:46 AM

[up]Then it's an addition to the source. Which is why people get so irritated when there's canon inconsistency — both contradictory elements can't make a complete story.

The thing about canon is, it's more like one very long work rather than separate works. They're not self-contained like different episodes of Looney Tunes or different greek myths.

edited 18th Jun '14 6:25:54 AM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer

Total posts: 130,800
Top