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TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#53101: Feb 26th 2017 at 8:20:33 AM

[up][up] Depending on your point of view, he kind of did. The High Priest just made a bad call.

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#53102: Feb 26th 2017 at 8:31:42 AM

It might have been smarter for him to just go to his knees.

But yeah. stood up and was conscious, while his opponent was completely out, and more to the point, out first. It does seem like the call was bad.

And yeah, you can't blame Shin. He was the weakest and youngest of his fellow Kais, apparently doing a job on his own that used to be done by five other dudes (though this seems to be retconned now). And as stated, Beerus was massively lazy and petty, and if he'd been around when Buu was rampaging, the other Kais of his universe would still be around to take care of things.

It's really not his fault. He did everything he could.

One Strip! One Strip!
UdtheImp from Stamford, CT (Series 2) Relationship Status: The Skitty to my Wailord
#53103: Feb 26th 2017 at 8:33:53 AM

[up]Exactly. It started with a single psychopath going on a genocide spree, and everything for U7 just kinda went downhill from there.

edited 26th Feb '17 10:42:00 AM by UdtheImp

DAMMIT MARK, STOP HITTING HELPY!!
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#53104: Feb 26th 2017 at 8:47:05 AM

[up][up] There were not any Dragonball style standup rules, if you can walk away you win, that is it. Gohan lost the second he refused the Senzu really.

This was a failure to do a little buildup for Goku and U7 too by making it so Goku does not fight and build his relationship with Zeno in front of everyone and a few comments about how strong he is. Make it so everyone will be gunning for Goku yet having no info on actually how strong he actually is. It would have been really interesting especially with that guy making comments on boosting powerlevels or whatever.

But no Goku has to do everything as per shonen rules.

edited 26th Feb '17 8:49:16 AM by Memers

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#53105: Feb 26th 2017 at 8:49:45 AM

The lesson Gohan learned was that his ingenuity and strength are enough for him to succeed if he lets himself do so, but that he still needs to commit to it and show more dedication in getting his fighting sense back. The latter would've been lost if he won, and the former would've been lost if he didn't.

So they had him unambiguously outclass Lavenda when it came to the actual fighting, but had the mistakes and slip-ups he makes overall repeatedly catch up to him and cause them to draw.

Imo, it's a lot more interesting than Gohan just going all out and beating Lavenda into the ground, and far better for the character arc they've been blatantly setting up for him. For the first time in a while, Gohan losing a fight isn't about Goku, it's about himself - and its clear set-up for later Character Development and victories.

edited 26th Feb '17 8:53:13 AM by KnownUnknown

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#53106: Feb 26th 2017 at 8:53:34 AM

Not really, as long as it was a close match it would have worked there. A close victory would have been even better actually as he would have gained a bit more confidence as well as analyzing his mistakes.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#53107: Feb 26th 2017 at 8:55:00 AM

It could have, but it would certainly not have worked as well. At this point in his character arc Gohan's here to learn and grow, not to win yet. And "I nearly lost it for a second there, but I pulled it out in the end!" is less impactful (and doesn't hit the Aesop as well) than "I could have won, but I screwed myself and couldn't push through it."

edited 26th Feb '17 8:57:07 AM by KnownUnknown

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#53108: Feb 26th 2017 at 8:56:53 AM

Having a little confidence in himself is the biggest element he is missing and this did nothing for that, in fact it probably did more harm than good.

edited 26th Feb '17 8:58:37 AM by Memers

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#53109: Feb 26th 2017 at 8:59:30 AM

He's got confidence. What they're setting him up to have is dedication towards improving himself. He doesn't want to use his power, and so can't unleash his true strength.

That's always been the thing they do with Adult Gohan, ever since Buu. He's powerful, but content to atrophy. He'll use his strength when absolutely necessary, but Super's been setting him up as disappointed with himself that he's let himself go. He's lost his fighting spirit, not his confidence, and he's slowly getting it back but not yet. Last time, he was completely outmatched and sat there being tortured by Freeza. This time, he thought we was getting better, but he was still sloppy and unable to show his true potential. The foreshadowing being that he'll finally return to form in the actual tournament (remember that this is an exhibition with no stakes).

edited 26th Feb '17 9:05:05 AM by KnownUnknown

Majinangelo Since: Oct, 2015
#53110: Feb 26th 2017 at 9:22:03 AM

I agree with Known Unknown. I don't think it would have been consistant with Gohan's arc in Super to have a decisive win in the preliminary battle. Or rather I would have taken it as a sign and I'd be thinking Gohan won't have a big role in this arc. I think this fight did what it needed to do. It showed that Gohan for all his flaws is still a formidable fighter. Enough for Bergamo and Toppo to take notice no less. But there's still room for him to grow. And to be fair he pretty much won this fight anyway. And even with a draw universe 7 is leading 2 to 1 so Goku's fight is not going to be the decisive battle.

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#53111: Feb 26th 2017 at 9:25:08 AM

Who said anything about decisive? Gohan needed just a simple but close win against a weak ass gimmick fight and they didn't even bother to do that.

Anyway Fridge Logic Future Trunks is gonna die when Zeno of his timeline does his purge...

edited 26th Feb '17 9:27:20 AM by Memers

BigBlackBangBro Time Stranger Since: Sep, 2016
Time Stranger
#53112: Feb 26th 2017 at 9:28:52 AM

Amazing to think he's been out of practice for awhile, got blinded and poisoned , and can't sense his Ki. But Gohan put up a good fight. Also just goes to show Gohan is still one U7 strongest fighters...without training :p

35 year old white man.
Majinangelo Since: Oct, 2015
#53113: Feb 26th 2017 at 9:35:05 AM

[up][up] Well that's basically what he did despite Daishinkai's ruling. He knocked Lavenda out then collapsed because he couldn't hold it anymore. That's a close victory in my book. It just makes him more sympathetic to be unsatisfied if that win doesn't count.

DS9guy Since: Jan, 2001
#53114: Feb 26th 2017 at 9:48:15 AM

I knew Gohan would not win because I knew Goku would be the deciding factor in the preliminary tournament. That being said, I'm glad Gohan did not go out like a punk and got a tie (stupid referee) rather than an outright loss.

edited 26th Feb '17 9:48:37 AM by DS9guy

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#53115: Feb 26th 2017 at 9:55:11 AM

That said, Goku might lose, and it ends up in a tie.

It's 1 to 1 in terms of victories.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
BigBlackBangBro Time Stranger Since: Sep, 2016
Time Stranger
#53116: Feb 26th 2017 at 9:58:12 AM

Doesn't really matter anyways since neither team are getting destroyed from losing this fight.

35 year old white man.
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#53117: Feb 26th 2017 at 10:02:30 AM

It kind of matters.

Universe 7 is second from the bottom but we don't know by how much. If Goku loses then that means Universe 7's strongest fighter just lost to Universe 6's. Every other universe is stronger than them.

There's no immediate stakes but the implications are pretty wild.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#53118: Feb 26th 2017 at 10:06:37 AM

We do know by how much, albeit via a number whose scaling we know very little about yet.

Universe 9 is, on the whole, half as strong as universe 7.

edited 26th Feb '17 10:36:20 AM by KnownUnknown

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#53119: Feb 26th 2017 at 10:09:09 AM

If Goku loses to Bergamo (assuming he doesn't give up) it will probably be due to some supreme gimmick BS. In any case, I doubt he's going to lose because of the whole if Bergamo wins, the universes won't be destroyed thing that has yet to be properly revealed.

This song needs more love.
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#53120: Feb 26th 2017 at 10:27:29 AM

It's Universe 9 people...

edited 26th Feb '17 10:27:43 AM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#53121: Feb 26th 2017 at 10:42:47 AM

Universe 9 is just one U-turn away from being Universe 6.

[up] (2)

I don't think it's going to get more elaboration. And I don't think it's actually scaled on each universe. Unless the Priest said something otherwise.

  • That would mean either Grand Priest or Zen'O performed an off-screen background check on a level we've never seen from anyone other than Whis.
  • Why would Zen'O start being omniscient now when he apparently didn't know or care about Frieza or Majin Buu? He doesn't even contact Goku directly or know of him until the first tournament happened.
  • Isn't it kind of odd how the Priest makes all these statements rather than Zen'O?
  • If Zen'O already knew the levels of each universe and the preliminary wasn't to knock anyone out of the tournament, then what was the point of even having a preliminary round?
    • And why would the priest wait until the second to inform everyone "you all suck next to all of the other universes?"

The only ways I see this going:

  • If Universe 7 is second-lowest then we know that, per conventional storytelling, Goku and Vegeta have to gain absurd amounts of strength in the next 30-40 episodes to stand a chance. Meh. Considering they've powered up dramatically in the last two arcs this is kind of repetitive.
  • If Zen'O and Grand Priest's just made poor observations (and let's face it, that's practically a running gag with the gods at this point) of each universe based on what they saw in the preliminary then it gives a lot of room for speculation about how strong the strongest from each universe are while not completely ruling out the possibility that Goku and Vegeta are somewhere in their ballpark, at least with Super Saiyan Blue. Interesting.

edited 26th Feb '17 10:57:55 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
UdtheImp from Stamford, CT (Series 2) Relationship Status: The Skitty to my Wailord
#53122: Feb 26th 2017 at 11:04:55 AM

[up]I think that the Grand Priest did all the calculations by himself offscreen. All Zen'O probably said was "there's too many universes, let's blow up a few," and GP did all the rest. Also, the Grand Priest basically said the only reason they have this exhibition match was for Zen'Oes' entertainment, nothing more, with the GP only choosing the lowest two scoring universes for the sake of watching how much each universe's warriors are carrying the calculations.

Though honestly, I think this is how the Grand Priest is manipulating the Zen'Os. He diligently does all the grunt work for Zen'O and allows the kid to do whatever he wants as a means of both distracting him from the inner workings of the multiverse, and to runs everything behind the kids' back.

DAMMIT MARK, STOP HITTING HELPY!!
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#53123: Feb 26th 2017 at 11:09:13 AM

Off-Camera recording of Super DBH Mission 4's cinematic trailer:

It seems that Turles might get a new form...

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#53124: Feb 26th 2017 at 11:12:26 AM

[up] (2) That's a theory.

Maybe the Grand Priest is trying to convince the Zen'O's that even the weakest universes are worth keeping around because of how entertaining they are. Zen'O might think they're too boring and only want to keep the strongest ones, but he's also amazed by how cool the fights are, so the more he's exposed to the weaker fighters the less inclined he'll be to erase them later.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#53125: Feb 26th 2017 at 11:16:09 AM

Also, apparently this was cut out of today's DBK episode for legal reasons, but it was aired on the On Demand version of the episode:

edited 26th Feb '17 11:18:41 AM by Rinsankajugin


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