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KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#51051: Feb 4th 2017 at 10:26:43 PM

I'll admit I'm a little iffy on the extreme dickishness from Goku too - it's the only time I can remember of Goku actively creating a bad situation to satisfy himself (though I'm sure Saiga could think of one) rather than coming across a bad situation and simply not doing his utmost to stop it -but they're sticking to their guns very well. They're not just throwing it in there, they're building up a decent plot and dynamic around it, so it's still interesting.

edited 4th Feb '17 10:28:31 PM by KnownUnknown

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#51052: Feb 4th 2017 at 10:26:50 PM

He incites Zeno to trigger the multiverse tournament, despite being outright told that despite Zeno's outwardly kind demeanour he's a dangerously innocent being who doesn't understand the consequences of his titanic actions.

Wow. No wonder Goku and Zen'o get along so well. they are exactly alike.

Ok. That's not fair. Often, Goku does understand that his actions have consequences, but still, in this damn case, they are very similar.

One Strip! One Strip!
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#51053: Feb 4th 2017 at 11:00:46 PM

Interesting thought: Since a lot of people have made connections between the Clown Universe & DC, and that the fighters from that universe seem to be wearing what look to be superhero uniforms, I think it'd be a safe bet that THAT buff alien guy might be a Superman-expy.

Which means this is the closest we're gonna get to an official Goku vs Superman.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#51054: Feb 4th 2017 at 11:03:23 PM

Known kind of oversells it a bit, but it does touch upon that Goku's selfishness is dangerous. It also explains why Beerus fears Zen-oh so much, not necessarily his power but that in addition to his childlike innocence. He's basically the equivalent of a five year old with the power of god.

To juxtapose this, both Zen-oh's are literally destroying worlds to pass time as a game

So yea, while I doubt it'll be as serious as Known says, it really does sell the gravity of what Goku has done.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#51055: Feb 5th 2017 at 12:51:31 AM

Goku is childlike and childish in mentality as he never quite grasp the consequences of his actions. I I know Goku isn't flawless character but I wish Goku will learn form this blunder and hopefully try not to pull this stunt ever again. I wonder if Zeno's father or something will spank him for endangering the universe.

"Mai waifu."
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#51056: Feb 5th 2017 at 1:03:27 AM

I wrote some haikus to put in the Dragon Ball Super page. What do you guys think? I've been trying to write haikus for a while :)

Childlike and cute,

Omnipotent lord of all.

Timeline destroyer.

Truly beautiful

Yes, Super Saiyan Rosé.

Rejoice, Son Goku!

Justice, the World,

A Mad God proclaims himself.

His sins speaks for him.

edited 5th Feb '17 1:04:20 AM by Tomodachi

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#51057: Feb 5th 2017 at 1:08:09 AM

[up][up]

He should've done that the moment Zeno destroyed six of them.

edited 5th Feb '17 1:08:14 AM by hardcorefakes

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#51058: Feb 5th 2017 at 1:13:31 AM

Zeno's dad is careless dad.

"Mai waifu."
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#51059: Feb 5th 2017 at 1:21:04 AM

I really don't know how to feel about Goku now. Before when fandom made him out to be worse than he actually was, I simply took it as a joke and meme. Now the actual official material is portraying him close to how fandom perceives him and it legit bothers me.

What's worse, I can't even blame it on Toei as this is all outlined by Toriyama himself.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#51060: Feb 5th 2017 at 1:34:23 AM

Super!Goku is the worse incarnation of Goku. [tdown]

"Mai waifu."
hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#51061: Feb 5th 2017 at 1:36:57 AM

Yeah, it's one thing when the fans make him a meme, but when Toriyama makes him a meme too....well lets just say Goku fucked up here.

edited 5th Feb '17 1:54:47 AM by hardcorefakes

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#51062: Feb 5th 2017 at 1:48:08 AM

Goku doing what he wants with little regard to the consequences isn't out of character. It's just usually the things he want to do are good ideas. Remember when he threatened Kaioshin with death because he wanted to fight Vegeta, even though Vegeta was being a self-centered bastard? From Goku's perspective, that's WAY worse than what he just did: ignore Beerus and set up a tournament to have fun fights with all new fighters.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#51063: Feb 5th 2017 at 1:49:20 AM

I feel like all of this might be a little exaggerated, and I normally love the blame Goku for everything meme.

Or at least, we kind of knew this going in - the tournament would have the consequence of the losing teams having their universes destroyed. And we knew that Goku proposed the tournament. So, logical conclusion, Goku screwed everyone from the start because Zeno had already decided on that outcome. We knew this when the arc was first described. So maybe that's lessening the blow?

Or is it just that the show itself is addressing it by having characters blame Goku that suddenly this is Goku's most damaging characterization? Super has had Goku being incredibly irresponsible since the beginning. But we already swallowed that pill when Goku kept pestering Beerus, the guy who almost blew up Earth because of a pudding cup, about Monaca.

edited 5th Feb '17 1:54:08 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#51064: Feb 5th 2017 at 1:52:48 AM

If the whole universe destroying bit is as true as the blue sky, then googolplexes of lives are on the line thanks to Goku.

He already indirectly destroyed one multiverse, why not destroy another? tongue

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#51065: Feb 5th 2017 at 1:56:36 AM

Goku has no effect on Zeno deciding to off losing universes, and that's the sort of thing is something he's vehemently against: to die simply because you lost rather than get the opportunity to get stronger and fight again. He would almost certainly never even conceive of suggesting a tournament if he knew that was the penalty for losing, which is a point in his favor.

The inevitable realization probably isn't going to be fun for him.

edited 5th Feb '17 2:00:11 AM by KnownUnknown

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#51066: Feb 5th 2017 at 2:00:05 AM

I mean when you get down to it, wanting a multiverse tournament isn't a bad thing. It only becomes dangerous when run by two universe-destroying children. Goku just didn't realize that the Zen-Os might not be the most stable beings in existence and as such, I'd say the issue is less him being selfish and more naive.

This song needs more love.
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#51067: Feb 5th 2017 at 2:02:01 AM

Zen-Os might not be the most stable beings in existence

I mean, they're seen touching and joining hands in the intro, so they're not even causing any sort of temporal damage by existing in the same timeline. You can't fault Goku there.

edited 5th Feb '17 2:15:43 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#51068: Feb 5th 2017 at 2:05:18 AM

[up]

edited 5th Feb '17 2:05:45 AM by KnownUnknown

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#51069: Feb 5th 2017 at 2:43:08 AM

Dudes that new opening is lit as fuck. Totally epic beyond all known reason, real fucking hype material. [tup] [awesome]

I might just watch this arc if it really is epic. I mean I just planned on watching the dub on Toonami but if this shit might be epic & Goku might become a better person then fuck why not see it am I right, heheh. grin

edited 5th Feb '17 2:43:20 AM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#51070: Feb 5th 2017 at 3:13:50 AM

Dudes that new opening is lit as fuck.

Favorite opening thus far really.

Did he go full super saiyan god there?

I mean I don't know what else it would be. But if Super continues it's pattern of giving Goku new forms I... I just don't know what to make of that. Another new power-up Goku earned off-screen? Or something he develops during the tournament? Seeing as Goku used this "new" form before charging at Bugman again, it's probably superior to Super Saiyan Blue.

But Super Saiyan Blue was just introduced 2 story arcs ago - I think - and it was introduced to supercede Super Saiyan God, which itself surpassed Super Saiyan 3. So for Goku to have another entirely new form, but this time IT'S RED, that doesn't sit well with me. I feel like we haven't really seen what "Super Saiyan Blue" can do yet.

At least Super Saiyan 3 got some impressive showings before it became obsolete - God's claim to fame was letting Goku be Beerus's punching bag for over a minute without getting wrecked.

But Blue? It was introduced against Freeza who rivaled it with his Golden Form, and then it was equaled by Hit because reasons, and then by Black, who then surpassed it with Super Saiyan Rose, and then Goku managed to go "Full Power/Angry Mode" against Zamasu briefly - but really in terms of feats it's basically been Super Saiyan with blue hair dye. Nothing unique about it except a duller aura.

edited 5th Feb '17 3:16:48 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#51071: Feb 5th 2017 at 3:57:03 AM

Vegeta used it to rofl-stomp Cabba and Trunks. I never really understand what you're trying to say whenever you complain about a form's 'lack of showings'. Blue is Goku and Vegeta's strongest form. Any opponents they fight evenly in it would annihilate them in any other state. Its 'feats' are actually putting up a fight against those opponents.

edited 5th Feb '17 3:57:51 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Cag Since: Sep, 2010
#51072: Feb 5th 2017 at 4:02:25 AM

I'll admit I'm a little iffy on the extreme dickishness from Goku too - it's the only time I can remember of Goku actively creating a bad situation to satisfy himself
He left Vegeta alive, even when Vegeta made it clear that he'll come back and kill them all once he's done healing just so he could fight him again.

He did the same with Piccolo(well, that also had the issue of Kami dying along with him, but it's pretty likely that Goku would have done it even if that wasn't the case)

He gave Cell a Senzu Bean.

This is hardly new for Goku.

edited 5th Feb '17 4:35:54 AM by Cag

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#51073: Feb 5th 2017 at 4:11:15 AM

I don't know why people don't always cite Goku threatening Kaioshin to fight Vegeta as among Goku's poorer decisions. In my mind, it's the worst thing he's ever done, including Super. Threatening a god, who's on your side and is trying to help and warn you of a monstrously powerful Eldritch Abomination, so that you can get your battle kicks fighting and humoring your longtime rival who just decided that his life was better back when he was evil, with no plan whatsoever of finishing the fight fast to get back to the task at hand of stopping said Eldritch Abomination, is a phenomenally selfish, dickish, and stupid thing to do.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#51074: Feb 5th 2017 at 4:39:16 AM

Vegeta used it to rofl-stomp Cabba and Trunks. I never really understand what you're trying to say whenever you complain about a form's 'lack of showings'.

Lack of visible on-screen showings of power - with the exception of Kaioken Blue it doesn't feel like there's anything impressive or special about it.

All of the other forms get unique powers/instances to show off how powerful they are. Yes, "Blue is better because Beerus punches really hard so if you can stand up to that you must be Tonka tough." But that's about it. Heck in the manga this form comes with the disadvantage of 1-use at full power, and 10 percent for all subsequent uses. It just doesn't feel as distinct as Goku blocking Trunk's sword with a finger, or Gohan walking up to Buu fearlessly, or Super Saiyan God nearly destroying the universe.

All of those instances felt made you think, "wow, this new form is really powerful." Blue feels more like a safety blanket. "Well if Goku and Vegeta didn't have this they'd get one-shotted."

edited 5th Feb '17 5:09:16 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#51075: Feb 5th 2017 at 4:49:46 AM

inb4 the entire 'universes die' thing is solved by Goku asking Zeno not to do that.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari

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