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IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#50076: Jan 21st 2017 at 2:40:59 PM

There are a lot of adult fans, but I very much doubt the majority of the fanbase is adults who grew up with it.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#50077: Jan 21st 2017 at 2:45:11 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if a majority percentage of the online fandom is.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#50078: Jan 21st 2017 at 2:46:17 PM

@Two Pages Ago: as far as I can remember, Goku's only moment of being genuinely afraid, not nervous, not surprised, but afraid, was fighting Hit just a few episodes ago.

edited 21st Jan '17 2:47:14 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#50079: Jan 21st 2017 at 2:51:17 PM

[up][up][up] Ok? That's not really the point I was making to begin with.

Anyway, back to my actual point on Power Levels; really, I think it was flawed from the very beginning measuring characters in numerical values. Eventually, the numbers get ridiculous, which is why Toriyama just stopped recording them altogether. But that created another problem in that you only get vague statements on how strong characters are. "I've never felt a power as strong as this before, it's unreal" and things like that. Normally, that'd be easy to keep track of, but then it gets murky because you can't really tell just how strong said character is supposed to be.

This is why you have so many debates on things like "Is Kid Buu stronger than Super Buu?" "Why didn't Super Saiyan 3 Goku just beat Fat Buu" and the constant debates here on if Gohan was already stronger than Cell before SSJ 2 or just how strong Super Perfect Cell was in comparison to that. That's not even getting into all of the issues surrounding GT and Super and their wonky ass power scaling.

So really, I think it's less a problem attributed to just Freeza, although he is a big part of it, and more just how flawed the Power Level system was.

edited 21st Jan '17 2:52:59 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#50080: Jan 21st 2017 at 2:54:43 PM

@Very Melon

Having witnessed the horrors of Dragon Ball Fanfiction...

I tend to disagree. I would bet most Dragon Ball fans don't go past 13, given the crap they put on FF.net...

[up]You:

But the majority of the fanbase are fans who grew up with it lol. Like, why is this even an argument? What, you don't agree that there aren't a lot of adult fans for the series?

Me:

There are a lot of adult fans, but I very much doubt the majority of the fanbase is adults who grew up with it.

You:

Ok? That's not really the point I was making to begin with.

What.

edited 21st Jan '17 3:00:52 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#50081: Jan 21st 2017 at 2:55:42 PM

Being made for the shonen demographic doesn't necessarily mean most people consuming it are in that demographic. I remember hearing that a very large minority (like 40% or something) of people who read One Piece are in their 40s or older. Periphery Demographic and all that.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#50082: Jan 21st 2017 at 2:58:33 PM

I know and understand that, and I can even see a large portion of the fanbase being old fans, but short of giving me actual proof, I won't buy you just saying that the majority is old fans who've been fans for a long time.

Because to start with, this is a small portion of the population who likes anime, then you cut to only the part of that population that likes DB (which is very much NOT everyone who likes anime), then you cut to only the fraction that has stuck with it for over twenty years - suffice to say, I don't think that's a lot of people.

edited 21st Jan '17 3:00:02 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#50083: Jan 21st 2017 at 3:00:36 PM

I'm not really arguing that. For newer things I'd image that's not the case, but with things like Dragon Ball or Jo Jos Bizarre Adventure, or even One Piece, it makes more sense just by the nature of how long they've been going on.

edited 21st Jan '17 3:01:10 PM by LSBK

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#50084: Jan 21st 2017 at 3:04:50 PM

Fanbases get renewed, they get bigger, the older fans might even lose interest or the time to follow the series and move on, there's more people every new day.

The people who were fans at the start are not necessarily fans today. Yeah, there are some, there might even be a lot, but I would not just guess that they are the majority, especially when Dragon Ball has recently gotten a revival that got it a large young fanbase again.

edited 21st Jan '17 3:06:02 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#50085: Jan 21st 2017 at 3:08:05 PM

I'm aware fanbases get renewed, but that doesn't contradict the idea that older fans can make up a disproportionate, sometimes majorly, portion of a series' fanbase.

I'm not really arguing that most Dragon Ball fans are adults outside of the target demographic though. If other people were, I don't really have much to say and leave the discussion between you and them.

edited 21st Jan '17 3:20:23 PM by LSBK

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#50086: Jan 21st 2017 at 3:10:31 PM

So I was re-watching some older eps during the Piccolo saga. I got to the part where they all met Ma Junior at the tournament, and I couldn't help but wonder why at least Yamcha didn't recognize him.

Tenshihan did (though even he was a little off, thinking to only be a minion, which means that hat must be really good at hiding his identity) but Yamcha saw him on T.V. and should have noticed the blatant physical resemblance to that dude who killed his friend, his master, and then took over the world.

Seems a little odd.

One Strip! One Strip!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#50087: Jan 21st 2017 at 3:12:06 PM

[up][up]It doesn't contradict that idea, that's true.

[up]It's Yamcha, Rob.

edited 21st Jan '17 3:12:30 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#50088: Jan 21st 2017 at 3:13:42 PM

All I said, was that most discussions that focus on power levels are between either fans who grew up with the series or pre-teens who are new to the series. That's it. I was still on the topic of power levels and their impact on the series, not talking about which demographic is larger.

I don't know how or why this spun off into a topic about which demographic is larger; does it really matter? It's popular.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#50089: Jan 21st 2017 at 3:17:14 PM

[up][up]

Oh come on!

This isn't even me trying to hype him up or anything. He really should have noticed. I thought it was strange Krillin and Chiaoutzu didn't notice, but then I remembered they were dead.

Yes. Can never get a straight answer out of anyone when it comes to him.

One Strip! One Strip!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#50090: Jan 21st 2017 at 3:19:22 PM

This just seems like a case of everyone not figuring it (or at least something) out immediately being an idiot. Also, did Goku not notice Demon King spit out something before he exploded? That seems like the kind of thing you want to take care of immediately.

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#50091: Jan 21st 2017 at 3:19:23 PM

To be fair they have a quite different facial structure.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#50092: Jan 21st 2017 at 3:23:58 PM

And a different name too, as far as Yamcha knew.

Admittedly, it's the one green guy in the world...

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#50093: Jan 21st 2017 at 3:40:42 PM

How would Karrot notice that King Piccoro spit out an egg...he was behind him, facing the opposite direction and blown away by the explosion.

edited 21st Jan '17 3:41:18 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#50094: Jan 21st 2017 at 3:53:39 PM

Plus he was half dead at the time.

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#50095: Jan 21st 2017 at 4:09:08 PM

No-one recognized Ma Junior as Piccolo until his turban was blown off, so I guess green is a perfectly acceptable skin color in Dragon Ball, but antennae are cause for alarm.

edited 21st Jan '17 4:09:38 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#50096: Jan 21st 2017 at 4:13:09 PM

So...aliens are the devil.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#50097: Jan 21st 2017 at 4:17:20 PM

On the topic of older fans vs newer ones being the majority, this discussion can't be had without two points, one of which we talk about a lot but haven't connected to the discussion, video games, the other which doesn't even seem to have so much as grazed this debate:Dragon Ball Kai.

Dragon Ball Kai, that show that TOEI removed Digimon from it's time spot, probably to the detriment of said monster series(it managed to get a third season but by all accounts that season sucked). As much as I didn't care for kai(it's your subpar cartoon with the padding cutout? Whoopee, never should have expected you to go back and reanimate it or anything), it's closer to manga approach worked very well with acquainting new people to the material, ensuring that Yo Son Goku And His Friends Return, Dragon Ball Z Battle Of Gods, Revival Of F and Dragon Ball Super all had a waiting audience.

Arcades are still a thing in Japan and the Dragon Ball presence in them doesn't begin or end with "Heroes", nor does "Heroes" end at the arcade, as collecting cards is a novelty in of itself and there is also a manga for it. Dragon Ball home and handheld console releases also happen to be some of the most accessible fighting games of their generation, and you may not always see the quality but they're almost never Obvious Beta or Shovel Ware, they're something kids will go for even if they not necessarily that into just because Rated M for Money means a "kid's" game both decent and easy to pick up can be hard to find in any given genre, which fuels the continued success of Sonic The Hedgehog, incidentally the most obviously Dragon Ball inspired series I've ever seen. I'm not sure if most of it's fans are boys but most are young, there is precedent for an already established young fanbase for Dragon Ball potentially outnumbering the nostalgic adults even without Kai.

Now a "shonen" series where it's obvious the nostalgic adults outnumber the new kids, that's Digimon(Though I haven't paid attention since the whole "Appmon" experiment was started, so maybe it's been reversed, but 2006-15 reeked of it).

Buldogue's lawyer
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#50098: Jan 21st 2017 at 4:20:42 PM

Which I guess makes sense, since animal people are fairly common in Dragon Ball, including crocodile people, but I don't remember ever seeing an Earthling with antennae.

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#50099: Jan 21st 2017 at 4:35:10 PM

Yo Son Goku And His Friends Return happened before Kai, IIRC.

edited 21st Jan '17 4:35:22 PM by Eriorguez

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#50100: Jan 21st 2017 at 4:35:13 PM

@Black Yakuzu The reason we have "Kid vs Super" debates is because people are stubbornly clinging to information from an adaptation, or fanboying Goku. It's incredibly black and white in the manga, so that's not a fault on not using numerical battle powers.

Humans were irrelevant in Dragon Ball since Piccolo Daimao saga, so blaming that on Freeza is silly.

He does makes some good points tho. Yeah, the power up in Freeza saga were arbitrary and absurdly big, and there was no need to make Freeza thousand times stronger than Captain Ginyu, it doesn't actually adds anything to the story.

And yeah, everything he said about Resurrection of F is spot on, the whole thing was stupid.

I agree with this in full. Freeza arc power scaling was idiotic and bad for the story, but had no effect on the humans' relevance. Just look at Piccolo, he was left way behind in power scaling at two points and Toriyama still wanted to use him so he did. He got completely left in the dust by the zenkai and Super Saiyan, and still got to beat up Dr Gero even before getting his next fusion power-up.

However, I do think that the point of the video focused more on the screw-y power scaling than trying to make it about the humans, so overall I think it's a good analysis.


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