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IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#49776: Jan 16th 2017 at 7:24:46 AM

I don't think Super Goku is less heroic so much as Super Goku is more stupid. More stupid, less patient, less focused.

We haven't really had a chance to put his reaction to a do the right thing with not fighting or training prospects to the test situation. And no, raising Goten doesn't count because he's already raised himself and one son without income, and that one became a great scholar.

And Pushovermediacritic, I fail to see how "Don't Laugh At/Stop Enjoying destruction!" is less 'heroic' than "I will not allow you to destroy my world!" If anything, the latter is more self centered. "I don't care about what you blow up as long as it doesn't directly effect me!"

Buldogue's lawyer
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#49777: Jan 16th 2017 at 8:14:15 AM

...That's really stretching ya know? Goku is supposed to know about every planet that he's never seen or heard of before simply because Beerus destroyed them?

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#49778: Jan 16th 2017 at 8:23:48 AM

I'd say Goku is less Captain America and more Iron Man in terms of reasoning: Yeah, he'd fight for others, cares for them, and will improve their lives, but he doesn't go around looking for wrongs to set right: Goku goes around looking for a challenge, and will right any wrong he comes across in the process.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#49779: Jan 16th 2017 at 1:14:08 PM

Well, so long as he perceives it as a wrong anyway. Remember, Saiyan, skewed sense of what's right and what's wrong.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#49780: Jan 16th 2017 at 1:26:41 PM

It's not like they don't have a sense of what's right or wrong, they just prioritize combat and training above that.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#49781: Jan 16th 2017 at 2:22:19 PM

I did not say he didn't have it, I said that it is different from what most people would guess.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
JonnasN from Porto, Portugal Since: Jul, 2012
#49782: Jan 16th 2017 at 3:29:44 PM

I don't think Goku's sense of ethics is guided by his Saiyan biology. More the fact that he was raised in the woods by a kind hermit.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#49783: Jan 16th 2017 at 3:34:07 PM

Yeah, this is classic nature vs. nurture. Goku's Saiyaness clearly explains a lot about him but everything about him shouldn't be reduced to that.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#49784: Jan 16th 2017 at 3:46:03 PM

Just his eating disorder...and his fighting disorder....

Those are the only things related to his Saiyan-ness.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#49785: Jan 16th 2017 at 3:53:51 PM

Nature and nurture play a part, yes, but Goku's nature should not just be ignored.

Because a lot of the behavior that people call him out for tends to be Blue-and-Orange Morality, because he's an alien and people are expecting him to think like a human.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#49786: Jan 16th 2017 at 4:02:05 PM

He didn't act this way really until he learned he was an alien though. A lot of his "Saiyan" traits weren't there, or weren't really as prevalent.

Which makes it seem more like a weaksauce excuse to me.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#49787: Jan 16th 2017 at 4:12:30 PM

Or a retcon :V

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#49789: Jan 16th 2017 at 4:40:22 PM

Presumably, his more Saiyan-like traits came out during puberty, but even before that, Goku has always been an extremely violent guy. Punching things is generally his first solution to a problem and has always been.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#49790: Jan 16th 2017 at 5:10:48 PM

I mean, that could as easily be chalked up to not being smart enough to come up with alternative solutions as anything.

Also, no, most of the time when he met someone he didn't punch them. Usually he patted their crotch.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#49791: Jan 16th 2017 at 5:12:53 PM

The point being, Goku has always had a skewered sense of morality; that's been a thing since Dragon Ball.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#49792: Jan 16th 2017 at 5:18:02 PM

It's not always been skewed in the same way, though.

edited 16th Jan '17 5:18:22 PM by unnoun

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#49793: Jan 16th 2017 at 5:24:34 PM

Yes, I know that. But the point still stands, Goku's always been something an Antihero and I kind of wish people would stop acting like this is some new development. Yea, Super exaggerates the hell out of it, but that's just Toei being Toei as usual.

I don't recall anyone having an issue how he was written in Battle of Gods, and that's probably the least heroic he's ever been portrayed under Toriyama's pen.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#49794: Jan 16th 2017 at 5:29:47 PM

Dragonball Super is currently up to 75 episodes.

Dragonball Kai finishes out the Cell Saga with 98. The Buu saga finishes at 159.

The more you know...

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#49795: Jan 16th 2017 at 5:33:29 PM

Super is also quite heavy on the filler tho, and the first third of the series so far can be skipped over and replaced with 2 quite better movies.

MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#49796: Jan 16th 2017 at 5:35:06 PM

@Yakuzu: I don't know, it's hard to beat him giving Cell a Senzu Bean.

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#49797: Jan 16th 2017 at 5:37:52 PM

[up][up] Hey, that's... not untrue.

I just thought that was interesting. Also I might have thought Kai only went up to 75 for Cell. So I was like "wow, Super's actually gotten pretty far." That first promo image of Goku Black seems so far away already.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#49798: Jan 16th 2017 at 5:41:54 PM

[up][up]That is less dumb when you remember Gohan was stronger than Cell, even without SSJ 2.

edited 16th Jan '17 5:42:11 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#49799: Jan 16th 2017 at 5:44:09 PM

Wasn't that partially wanting to be fair, partially wanting Gohan to enjoy himself? It's definitely a bit warped but not really "selfish" or anything like that.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#49800: Jan 16th 2017 at 5:44:25 PM

Again, we do not know that.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!

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