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Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#49151: Jan 6th 2017 at 1:54:20 AM

I mean, unless the villain is stronger than the Kaio-ken like Frieza was; there's really no reason why the villains would need to know it at all, especially since people were just fine with only Goku having it against Vegeta and the Ginyu Force.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#49152: Jan 6th 2017 at 2:15:40 AM

The issue is, if it's not so difficult only Goku can learn it, then it means that any given villain we see could be so much stronger and that's a little weird. There is a reason fans are constantly asking why X doesn't learn the Kaio-ken.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#49153: Jan 6th 2017 at 2:19:16 AM

And that reason is that the fans don't care about the fact that the Kaioken is not an easy technique, that it's so difficult that combat genius Goku took months to learn it to an acceptable degree and that the only guy who can teach you is in the afterlife.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#49154: Jan 6th 2017 at 2:20:41 AM

Well, yes, there is that (especially for the humans/Piccolo) but also because it feels contrived if the technique is can theoretically be used by anyone... and isn't.

edited 6th Jan '17 2:21:02 AM by Saiga

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#49155: Jan 6th 2017 at 2:28:39 AM

I always assumed it would just make the humans' bodies go squish if they even attempted it. Goku's body has always been naturally tougher than everyone else's.

As for Piccolo, maybe he just doesn't like the loss of stamina and hurting his body for a brief boost in strength.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#49156: Jan 6th 2017 at 3:05:04 AM

That is afair point. I guess the main reason fans wanted to other characters to learn Kaio Ken is that they want some way to catch up to Goku and to defeat a villain for once.

"Mai waifu."
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#49157: Jan 6th 2017 at 3:09:50 AM

Ignoring base power, even though we shouldn't, the very least they'd need is Kaioken x400 in order to catch up to SSJ 3 Goku, and it only goes further up with the god forms.

And that's, again, ignoring the fact that the highest ever recorded powerlevel for a human was Krillin's 75.000, which pales in comparison to Goku's 3.000.000 at around the same time.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#49158: Jan 6th 2017 at 3:48:28 AM

I mean, Goku learned it from a god. Maybe it's one of those techniques that needs a pure heart?

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#49159: Jan 6th 2017 at 5:23:54 AM

That's the funny part; even with a kaioken x20, every other character would still be weaker than Goku in his base form. It multiplies the base that's already there.

A human with a x20 base increase is still just a human.

But fans ignore that soooo....

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#49160: Jan 6th 2017 at 5:29:43 AM

They should go Kay-o-ken times 100...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#49161: Jan 6th 2017 at 5:56:13 AM

Humans are squishy but only if you compare them to the Super Saiyans, Gods, Demons, etc. Otherwise, the humans are quite badass but they are dwarfed by the various godlike beings in the series.

"Mai waifu."
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#49162: Jan 6th 2017 at 6:03:24 AM

Wasn't it implied that they were pretty much using the Kaioken, or at least its working principle, when Piccolo crushed Dr. Gero?

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#49163: Jan 6th 2017 at 6:46:09 AM

Only Cell and Super Buu would have a reason to know Kaioken (Cell from Goku's Cells, Super Buu from Krillin or Piccolo if they learned it). That's not too big of a deal in grand scheme of things, especially with Super around to give us literally one other character that could know it (and only in the anime). Teaching the humans, Fat Buu, and Piccolo Kaioken probably won't be the deal breaker Saiga predicts it would.

I guess the main reason fans wanted to other characters to learn Kaio Ken is that they want some way to catch up to Goku and to defeat a villain for once.

I don't want to sound rude but it's really obvious that's the only reason this suggestion comes up. A pointless idea that never would have helped mind you.

edited 6th Jan '17 6:48:32 AM by VeryMelon

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#49164: Jan 6th 2017 at 6:51:05 AM

Here's the quote from Piccolo:

Chapter: 346 (DBZ 152), P14.3
Piccolo: “Commit this to memory: when we fight, we amplify what you guys call ‘energy’, causing it to explode. That’s why the energy you stole from me earlier doesn’t matter…”

However, Piccolo's comment sounds more fitting for general suppression/powering up. Like Vegeta said about Goku:

Chapter: 281 (DBZ 87), P11.2-4
Jheese: “Wh-what’s going on…?! There’s no mistake that his battle power is only 5,000…”
Vegeta: “Ka-Kakarot rapidly heightens his battle power for the brief instant when he attacks…That’s probably to decrease unnecessary energy consumption…It’s for an extremely brief instant, so even the scouters probably can’t pick up on it…Th-this is an outrageous battle power…H-how did he get that kind of power?...”

They clearly don't have any physical indicators of Kaio-ken. Thanks to the anime, some people believed that Goku achieved an "invisible Kaio-ken" and that Piccolo's comments mean the rest of them did as well. But there's no such thing in the manga, and they're already manipulating their battle power without Kaio-ken.

[up] That's not the point. What I have been saying, is that any enemy fought without Kaio-ken is an enemy that could have just outright won if they did have Kaio-ken, which they totally could have if it's opened up to everyone. So either every villain has Kaio-ken to be at their full potential power, or we know in advance that the villain is not as strong as they could be just with in-universe information.

It's easy to say why certain characters wouldn't have it in-universe, but it doesn't represent the problem that everyone SHOULD have it or they're effectively handicapped.

edited 6th Jan '17 6:53:51 AM by Saiga

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#49165: Jan 6th 2017 at 6:53:22 AM

Man, reading the manga reveals a lot of interesting details I'd never get from the Z or Kai anime.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#49166: Jan 6th 2017 at 7:10:18 AM

Yeah, the manga has more exposition and padding, leading to even worse pacing.

(Fight me tongue)

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#49167: Jan 6th 2017 at 8:40:02 AM

Fight you? No. I'm gonna kill you.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#49168: Jan 6th 2017 at 8:43:32 AM

Relevant:

edited 6th Jan '17 8:45:07 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#49169: Jan 6th 2017 at 8:43:41 AM

Aw. You went and said it. Now you won't accomplish anything and unnoun will eat you.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#49170: Jan 6th 2017 at 9:02:15 AM

[up][up]Doesn't Kaio-ken have red tint? That first Tien usage is probably meant to be Kaio-ken but the others just seem like normal powering up.

edited 6th Jan '17 9:02:28 AM by Moth13

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#49171: Jan 6th 2017 at 9:11:39 AM

[up][up] To be fair, it likely would have happened even if I had said nothing at all. At least I get a badass line before I go.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#49172: Jan 6th 2017 at 12:03:46 PM

[up][up][up][up]I mean that's kind of sugarcoating it because the result is the same; humans are too weak to contribute that much when the main characters and villains are literally gods.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#49173: Jan 6th 2017 at 12:18:49 PM

And they always have been really.

Look at the Piccolo Daimou saga:

1) Krillin killed off right at the start with little effort;

2) Yamcha doesn't even get to the fight in time due to his injury taking too long to heal, and then arriving after it's already happened (and he was already drifting into uselessness post Pilaf arc though his Memetic Loser status wasn't cemented quite yet);

3) Tenshihan, who had fought Goku near equally one arc earlier, was left to only watch as Goku and Piccolo threw down, having been rendered utterly irrelevant outside of briefly saving Goku with his levitation technique.

4) Roshi came to closest to doing anything, but botched it at the last moment;

Entire armies utterly useless against Piccolo's pure power, letting him conquer the entire world with little to no effort.

Yeah. Humans suck. We've all known it. I don't like that Toriyama went in that direction, but we are where we are.

One Strip! One Strip!
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#49174: Jan 6th 2017 at 12:45:45 PM

To be fair, humans are no longer a challenge to Goku and he needs stronger opponents to fight against.

"Mai waifu."
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#49175: Jan 6th 2017 at 12:57:03 PM

humans are no longer a challenge to Goku and he needs stronger opponents to fight against.

Well there's always Saitama.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!

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