Show me where Goten, Gohan and Trunks are traumatized. Show me where they get flashbacks of these moments.
Show me where Goten, Gohan and Trunks show the slightest hint of not having gotten over the traumatic events of their past.
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimariI'm not clear to what extent Saiyan resistance to trauma isn't more cultural/brain damage related than anything either.
Like. Vegeta seems pretty traumatized when he died to Frieza on Namek. He cried like a bitch and begged Goku, begged Goku to carry the fallen wills of their people.
Frieza kinda fucked him up a little that day. It was a really bad day.
Like, I guess he "got over it" when he got resurrected, but. That still doesn't quite represent an absolute immunity to trauma.
I mean. Have you seen the Great Saiyaman?
Ginyu seemingly traumatized the living fuck out of Gohan.
All the poses are clearly a defensive coping mechanism.
edited 24th Dec '16 8:14:07 PM by unnoun
I'm not saying they're immune, I'm saying they get over it insanely quickly, and they recover from things that most people really wouldn't.
I'm not sure I can name very many people who would recover from a fraction of what Gohan went through, but Gohan is a very well adjusted, productive member of society whose quirks do not relate to his trauma in any way, and are instead a result of him being a complete dork trying to be cool and hip.
Basically, you can fuck them up, but you can't make it stick.
Then again, this is the case with most shonen action characters in general - it's just that Dragon Ball has an actual explanation for why this is the case. They're aliens who exist solely for fighting.
edited 24th Dec '16 8:15:41 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimariSaiyan culture seemed to be based entirely around their inborn predisposition to want to fight. When you have something like that it's not a stretch to think they also have a predisposition to get over trauma very quickly, if it develops at all.
Again, Gohan, Goten, and Trunks (and Bra, and Pan) aren't full-blooded Saiyans, but, most of the things that make them good/strong fighters come from that side, so it's not a stretch to think they inherited the resilience as well.
It doesn't mean they won't get scared or anything, but, look at how fast Gohan learned to take care of himself and get used to near death situations when he was 4 and 5.
edited 24th Dec '16 8:31:21 PM by LSBK
And speaking about natural predisposition for fighting...
The fact that One Punch Man's anime exists just makes my contempt for Toei grow.
They've got Dragon Ball. Dragon Fucking Ball. The single biggest Manga/Anime property, bar none. Yes, it's the biggest. It's not the best selling manga of all time, but it's sure as hell the most popular manga of all time. But the animation, and in particular, the fights, of Dragon Ball Super are unbelievably disappointing, and it really pisses me off how bad they are in comparison to fights where the animators actually gave a fuck.
Compare the fight between Saitama and Genos
VS the fight between Vegetto and Zamasu, wherein they struggle to do barely any damage to the environment, the fight is slow and everything they do lacks any sort of impact or spectacle. Seriously, every time I go back to see one of the fights in One Punch Man, I'm reminded how lame Dragon Ball Super is in comparison.
Blame the fact that Toei is so gigantic compared to many other anime studios.
And Calling Naotoshi Shiida's animation bad is laughable. Its the art in Super thats the main issue. There's also the fact that Saitama vs Genos was done by completely different people from him that have the advantage of being born in the Web Gen era of japanese animation.
Series like Precure and One Piece have better animation from Toei in general because, ironically enough, the fact that they are easier to draw and simpler in design makes the animation much more vibrant by comparison.
edited 24th Dec '16 8:44:08 PM by Demongodofchaos2
Watch SymphogearYou'll notice I said disappointing, not bad. The fights are terrible, but it's not because of the animation quality, it's because they're just awful choreography coupled with a massive lack of impact on everything.
Hell, the Final Kamehameha alone encapsulates everything that's wrong about that fight.
edited 24th Dec '16 8:52:04 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimariOf course, budget has almost nothing to do with bad animation in anime, especially since the average budget for an episode is less then half of a western animation with the same time frame. its when the animators they do have have no skill in their craft, plus the horrible conditions anime animators have compared to other places in the world. Naotoshi Shiida doesn't generally use impact frames much in his work either, hence why it tends to be so smooth all the time.
The reason Ep 5 was bad, despite being supervised by long time Dragon Ball animator Naoki Tate was because every animator from Toei Phillipines (The worst part of Toei) had complete rookies instead of the usual people, hence the off model frames and obvious in between shots that shouldn't be seen with the naked eye unless you were to randomly pause an episode.
edited 24th Dec '16 8:50:59 PM by Demongodofchaos2
Watch SymphogearI didn't bring up the budget, though.
Furthermore, it does have an effect no matter how much you want to deny it, because how big the budget is determines which animators are willing to work on the project, because the better the studio animating is, the more money they want for their services. Heath Ledger put it best, if you're good at something, never do it for free, but I add the addendum that the better you are, the more you charge.
Yes, even when the project is in-house, it matters a lot, because the bigger the budget, the better the tools and conditions the team that's working on it (if the one managing the project isn't an asshole scumbag dumbass) will work in, resulting in a higher quality product.
Ultimately, though, the reason Super isn't as good as it could, and should, be is laziness, because it's not like they were in a rush. Dragon Ball has proven to withstand the test of time before. In the end, They Just Didn't Care.
Incidentally, not using impact frames in a fight is a very dumb idea. You say it's 'smooth', I say that it simply lacks any actual impact or weight. The fight doesn't look like two obscenely strong individuals, with power so titanic and great that their very clashes put the fabric of the universe in jeopardy, are fighting to the death. It looks less impressive than Goku fighting Piccolo... the first time.
edited 24th Dec '16 8:58:00 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimariAlso, One Punch Man had the same budget as a standard anime, the reason the animation was so god-tier was because the animators were huge fans of the source material and were willing to work for less, so using that as your example of 'budget matters' kills your argument.
edited 24th Dec '16 9:10:36 PM by PushoverMediaCritic
I didn't use it as an example for how the budget matters though.
I'm getting the sense that you guys assume I'm saying that the budget is the only thing that matters, when it's not what I'm saying. In fact, what I'm blaming the most for Super's lackluster art and animation in general (yes, I'm calling it lackluster because it's decent, when it's an already proven cash cow franchise that should be receiving VIP treatment, it shouldn't be just 'average'), it's Toei's mismanagement of it.
And overall disrespect to its franchise.
Mostly Toei, because Toei is basically pure shit.
edited 24th Dec '16 9:16:22 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimariBecause the budget's not the problem with Dragon Ball Super. If it was, we would've heard about it.
No, the real problem is that, and let's be frank, the people who own the rights for Dragon Ball Super's anime don't give a shit.
The fact of the matter is, they have a series that can go through several gag episodes where the impact-less style of animation would fit, but instead they decided to give that style of animation to the fight between the former 'strongest character in the entire franchise' and the then current Big Bad. Hell, they even showed where it actually works, when Vegetto is dismayed at Zamasu being an overdramatic ninny in the middle of the fight.
edited 24th Dec '16 9:20:23 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimariYou pretty much implied that, though, with you saying that the Studio matters. It doesn't.
In Anime, Freelancers matter far more then Studios, hence why the Anime industry is actually in some deep shit right now. There's freelance animators galore, but not enough skilled in house ones. Its Kyoto Animation and Ufotable that the skilled in house animators, and even then, the lattter needed help from almost a dozen other anime studios just to finish their God Eater anime.
Its why Gainax is currently in the state its in, for example, with Hideaki Anno taking himself and most the staff that worked on Evangelion with him to Khara and Hiroyuki Imaisihi doing the same with most of the staff from Gainax's wackier stuff like FLCL and Gurren lagann.
The reason Toei is surviving even now when Gainax is on the brink of collapse is because their so big and have so many divisions within their own company that unless all of their products failed at once in terms of sales and merchandising for at least several decades in a row, they won't collapse in on themselves because of "laziness".
Watch SymphogearTrying to follow your train of thought to formulate an actual response is more than difficult.
You insist that the budget doesn't matter. That the studio that's in charge of doing it doesn't matter. That only Freelancers matter.
You insist that the amount of money used to pay for each episode, for the animators, for the equipment and the place the animators work in, for the material they work with, doesn't matter.
You insist that the people in charge of grabbing that money and directing it where it may be needed doesn't matter.
Am I getting your point right? Because I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. Confirm it for me, please.
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimariI feel like comparing most anime to OPM is unfair. OPM is an anime that's on a level of perfection that is extremely difficult to reach. Absolutely everything about it is so lovingly crafted and had so much thought and effort put into it that it's insane.
Of course, that being said, Super should be able to match it seeing as how there are probably far more people who love Dragon Ball compared to those who love OPM. The only reason it's not living up to what it could be is because Toei knows that the name Dragon Ball will make them roll in cash so long as the quality is at least halfway decent so that's all the effort they put into it in order to maximize their profits.
Compare Battle of Gods to anything in Super or even Resurrection "F". Battle of Gods came after a very long period where there was no new major anime release for the franchise and after Evolution had severely hurt its reputation to newer audiences in the West. They knew that the best way to get people back into Dragon Ball was to put serious effort and care into it and the result was a beautiful looking movie that contained amazing scenes and arguably one of the best fights in the entire series. Battle of Gods got everyone excited for Dragon Ball in a way that hadn't been seen since the original anime ended. The fact that Toriyama worked on it was just icing on the cake.
After that, you had Resurrection "F". Coming fresh off of the massive success that was Battle of Gods, Toei knew that they didn't have to put in nearly as much effort as into it so they didn't. The fights are far less impactful and energetic, the story has no tension, and the animation isn't quite as good (especially when Golden Freeza and SSJB Goku start fighting and it switches to 3D models for some absurd reason). While what we got isn't necessarily a bad movie, it isn't that great, either.
And now we have Super. Toei knew that interest in a new Dragon Ball anime would be at an all time high and, with the Boo Saga of Kai coming to a close, they knew that now was the perfect to time start it. They knew people were already hooked so they put in the bare minimum effort needed to make an anime. While it didn't work quite as well as they hoped since the fandom and press reacted very negatively at the horrid animation of numerous episodes, all they did was raise it to a level where people wouldn't complain that much. Rather than raising the show to what it could be and what fans wanted it to be, they just raised it to the point where people would shut up and give them their money.
While the animation now isn't usually bad, it's usually not all that great and that applies to basically everything else about the series.
At least, that's my take on the matter.
Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!Guys, seriously, Josh Grelle needs to voice Zamasu.
And happy Frieza day!
I mean, Happy holidays!
edited 24th Dec '16 9:59:45 PM by Tomodachi
To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.![]()
You and I are in agreement, the main difference is that the people working on OPM love what they're doing.
The people working on Dragon Ball Super... They Just Didn't Care.
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimariI'm still unclear on what exactly Hit was doing, but it seems there's more to his Time screwing powers then what we originally thought. Whatever the case, the invisible ki blasts (that go through trees without damaging them, and the ability to create false ki signatures certainly give him so unique abilities.
I doubt we've seen all he has in his arsenal however.
One Strip! One Strip!

edited 24th Dec '16 8:07:46 PM by PushoverMediaCritic