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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#46501: Nov 15th 2016 at 10:53:11 AM

[up][up]I will never understand this reasoning. Some bad or shitty plot convenience doesn't suddenly turn good just because the main character isn't the one doing it.

"Considering other people" doesn't mean anything if it's still done in a shitty, out-of-nowhere way.

edited 15th Nov '16 10:54:09 AM by LSBK

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#46502: Nov 15th 2016 at 10:54:21 AM

I kinda feel like that's a bit disingenuous. So nobody but Goku is allowed to contribute anything to plot and everyone else should just sit down like the bench warmers they are? I know that's not what you said, but your post seems to be implying that its inherently wrong for another character to save the day, like it's forbidden taboo or something and that crossing it means the the character in question is terrible.

Like damn, I agree the execution could have been better, but can you at least look at the thematic relevance of the whole thing?

Now that I now you were talking to me, I only wonder you got...any of that from my post.

I get the theme of "Mortals killing a self-rightest God" was the reason Future Trunks had to kill Zamasu, I actually said this was the point of it pages ago, but fusion wasn't needed for that at all.

Just have Future Trunks fight and kill Goku Black, the Zamasu that actually antagonized his Earth. Future Zamasu should have been sealed by Goku using the Mafuba, without forgetting the seal.

You get the same point across without needless fusion.

edited 15th Nov '16 10:56:24 AM by VeryMelon

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#46503: Nov 15th 2016 at 10:55:33 AM

It wasn't directed at you lol, I just put one too many arrows.

edited 15th Nov '16 10:56:09 AM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#46504: Nov 15th 2016 at 10:57:08 AM

Oh. It was Shlugo then. Yeah, no problem.

edited 15th Nov '16 10:58:59 AM by VeryMelon

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#46505: Nov 15th 2016 at 10:59:06 AM

Yessir.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#46506: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:00:50 AM

I'm completely fine with Trunks finishing off Zamasu. He didn't do it without help, and Zamasu was a much more personal enemy to him than Cell was to Gohan. I don't see anyone complaining that Gohan beating Cell was undeserved, even when they literally met half an hour before they had their first, and final, battle.

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#46507: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:02:53 AM

[up]x6 Eh? Dragon Ball has always been the Goku show. They can try and build the tension with X other character might win but since it is the Goku show that tension falls completely and utterly flat because there is 100% chance that they will lose.

Hell them being vs some mook is better than fighting the big bad cause they actually have a chance to win.

More than 90% of Shonen are this too which sucks.

edited 15th Nov '16 11:03:25 AM by Memers

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#46508: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:05:16 AM

I think you're missing the point; it being the "Goku show" has nothing to do with terrible writing surrounding the episode. Its not so much Trunks killing Zamasu itself is the problem, but the circumstances that led to it for some people.

edited 15th Nov '16 11:05:39 AM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#46509: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:08:41 AM

Still wonder what's up with Black's own "immortality".Unless he was using Kai magic all along to constantly heal himself.

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#46510: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:13:21 AM

Black wasn't immortal, he apparently healed faster than Trunks could and gained power at a faster rate than Trunks did. Being full sayian probably accounted for the latter and the former umm time travel antics to heal up maybe?

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#46511: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:14:28 AM

I kinda feel like that's a bit disingenuous. So nobody but Goku is allowed to contribute anything to plot and everyone else should just sit down like the bench warmers they are? I know that's not what you said, but your post seems to be implying that its inherently wrong for another character to save the day, like it's forbidden taboo or something and that crossing it means the the character in question is terrible.

Like damn, I agree the execution could have been better, but can you at least look at the thematic relevance of the whole thing?

I like how you call me disingenuous and then go to construct a nice, easy strawman for yourself to attack.

My dislike has nothing to do with spotlight not being on Goku for five minutes and everything with forcing Trunks in a role that has less to do with how he was originally and more to do with pleasing fanboys. It's just a total misinterpretation of the character, and for the worse.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#46512: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:15:44 AM

I assume Zamasu's godly ki had something to do with it.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#46513: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:18:02 AM

I think you're missing the point; it being the "Goku show" has nothing to do with terrible writing surrounding the episode. Its not so much Trunks killing Zamasu itself is the problem, but the circumstances that led to it for some people.

This. I have no problem with other characters getting the spotlight but I'll never understand excusing what would otherwise be considered bullshit, or even thinking it's good, just on the basis of the fact that someone other than the main character did it.

This is independent of my feelings of the Trunks situation.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#46514: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:23:45 AM

[up][up][up] Ignoring the blatant bait in your post.

How is it a role "unsuited" for Trunks? He's literally the main character of the arc, it makes total and complete logical sense for him to resolve it. Black was his Arch-Enemy to begin with.

If you said HOW they did it fine, but you seem to have a problem with the idea of Trunks being The Hero in any capacity despite him being the focal point of the arc. And then you call it pandering on top of that...

edited 15th Nov '16 11:24:37 AM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#46515: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:26:52 AM

Super Saiyan Hikari

Hmm?

This just feels like a sequel to androids saga as written by a Trunks fanboy.

Been saying that for awhile now.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#46516: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:27:44 AM

It's my name for Future Trunks' new Super Saiyan Form. It was either that, or Future Super Saiyan.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#46517: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:28:29 AM

Future Super Saiyan God Future Super Saiyan Hikari.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#46518: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:28:30 AM

Just call it "Not!Super Saiyan Blue"

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#46519: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:30:45 AM

I thought Hikari was a reference to another anime or something.

I'd only heard the name False Super Saiyan Blue before.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#46520: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:31:04 AM

Or Ascended Super Trunks like the TV Guide says, even though that doesn't really make sense.

Buy our toys...

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#46521: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:33:10 AM

Xenoverse has toys!?

And why am I surprised by that... I haven't even looked at a Dragonball toy since GT stopped airing. I used to have a Super Vegeta action figure that had a detachable Big Bang attack accessory and a little mound of earth for Vegeta to stand on. At least I had one until my idiot cousin broke it and never apologized. We don't talk.

The Future Warrior's getup looked really dumb to me back when the trailer released, but it's... it's actually looking sort of cool now. Even though it's just a hodgepodge of Vegeta, Trunks, and Piccolo with a scouter.

edited 15th Nov '16 11:37:09 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#46522: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:48:05 AM

How is he the main character of the arc? He wasn't the last time he came back to the past, and he spent most of this arc playing second fiddle to Goku and Vegeta. And calling Black Trunks archenemy after he spent most of the arc obsession over Goku is silly.

Trunks initiates the arcs he shows up in, but he's not their hero, not really.

...

Though you might have a point, in that how this happened might color my judgement of the fact that it happened. If it was better written and not just a last minute "Uh... yeah, it's actually Trunks who defeats Zamasu!" thing, it wouldn't be so critical of it.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#46523: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:50:54 AM

No one has a problem with Future Trunks killing Zamasu.

As Shlugo is proving, never say never. Well, you didn't say never, but you get my point.

Anyway, as many have pointed out, the execution is the problem. They wanted to give us the classic Bait-and-Switch subversion of our expectations (no, of course Vegito isn't going to do it), which seems a little Toriyama-esque (I'll reserve judgement until we get to the Super Manga and see how it goes there). However, we really should have had some build up towards Trunks new tricks (the weird new Super Saiyan form, and what was done here today). C'mon guys. You had time to foreshadow all of it, and you just pulled it out of nowhere.

I mean, Vegito was kinda foreshadowed as far back as the Revival of F (with Goku and Vegeta being told they needed to work together).

Also, they didn't need to introduce the idea of the Potara Fusion also running out if you used too much power. Just have the fight go on one hour and run out. It didn't need both limitations if you ask me. The fact that it has an hour long time limit is good enough. Though if that's the case, why bother revealing you can undo it through a wish from the dragon as well (which was the real reason I and possibly others, thought it would get brought back).

The result makes sense (Trunks landed the final blow because he's arguably the hero of the arc, and he had the help of all of humanity, not unlike Buu), but it just came from left field.

[up] And now, I feel like I'm pretty late wit my response. Go figure.

edited 15th Nov '16 11:51:54 AM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#46524: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:51:32 AM

Ya think Super DBH might make Ace playable and give him some crazy what if forms? Going by Xenoverse 1 & 2, he already has Kaioken, Potential Unleashed, SSJ, Ascended SSJ, Ultra SSJ, SSJ2, SSJ3 and Time Breaker forms.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#46525: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:52:30 AM

[up][up][up] He's the main character because it's literally his story and he's the one who initiated the plot. The main focus of the arc is him trying to find a way to beat Black, even if it is enlisting help from others.

Its not exactly like in Z because there was explicit focus on other characters besides Trunks, and even then, Trunks is the one who kick starts the arc to begin with.

Just because he's weaker than Goku or Vegeta doesn't mean the story stopped focusing on him.

edited 15th Nov '16 11:53:35 AM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.

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