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IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#46451: Nov 14th 2016 at 5:20:29 PM

Thing is, Vegetto and Zamasu should've actually clashed once on the planet, created a city-sized crater just from them blocking each other's punch, and then Vegetto should've knocked him into space to prevent more damage being done to the planet. That way, you get to show how absurdly strong they are and not also kill off the entire cast. Maybe have them actually demolishing entire planets as they move through space - showing both speed and strength.

This was one of the complaints I brought up - the fight really lacks impact. It doesn't feel like the most powerful fusion in the franchise and a monster that's almost as powerful as he is are fighting. It has less impact to it than the original fight between Piccolo Jr. and Goku, because in that fight, shit actually got blowed up.

This fight should've looked like something straight out of One-Punch Man, we should've seen the effect of their punches splitting the clouds from outer space!

It's a sad day when Dragon Ball's fights have less impact than fights in a shoujo series.

Even the Superman VS Goku Death Battle had a ton more impact than this, and it was made on a budget of like a ham sandwich and three brownies.

edited 14th Nov '16 5:25:00 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#46452: Nov 14th 2016 at 5:39:35 PM

[up]"It's a sad day when Dragon Ball's fights have less impact than fights in a shoujo series. "

Didn't knew Saitama and Genos were made for a female audience.

edited 14th Nov '16 5:41:01 PM by Tomodachi

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#46453: Nov 14th 2016 at 5:45:49 PM

So? Dragon Ball fights have always involved a scale lesser than what would be expected. Vegetto's first fight, with Super Buu, didn't have any ridiculous spectacle to the fight either, and that was a clash involving the two most powerful characters in the franchise until Battle of Gods.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#46454: Nov 14th 2016 at 6:00:57 PM

I mean, the anime also had the bit where Super Buuhan nearly caused all of reality to collapse just from his voice.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#46455: Nov 14th 2016 at 6:03:36 PM

And it had the whole ball explosion thing and the beam thing. An Vegetto controlling his ki to No-Sell Boohan entering his body. And then there's Jawbreaker Vegetto which is just one of the most beautiful things committed to animation.

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#46456: Nov 14th 2016 at 6:05:10 PM

[up][up]Which is both the logical extreme of Super Buu and SS3 Gotenks screaming open a hole in reality, and non-canon padding.

edited 14th Nov '16 6:05:51 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#46457: Nov 14th 2016 at 6:25:25 PM

We're comparing anime to anime here. Canon doesn't really matter. Besides, the anime version of the fight is way better than the manga version, in this instance, specifically because of all the stuff they add.

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IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#46458: Nov 14th 2016 at 6:34:30 PM

@Tomodachi

Not related to the One Punch Man comment though. What I'm saying is that I've seen Shoujo that have more impactful fights than this climactic battle between Vegetto and Zamasu.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
TFRazorsaw Since: Sep, 2010
#46459: Nov 14th 2016 at 6:42:06 PM

I'd say that the lack of "impact" to the devastation between Vegito and Zamasu is more to do with the fact that they're already fighting in a bombed out ruin.

But then most of Z's fights were in open wastelands so I dunno.

I dunno. I appreciate the more personal, up close conflict rather than "showstoppers"

edited 14th Nov '16 6:42:50 PM by TFRazorsaw

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#46460: Nov 14th 2016 at 6:44:26 PM

Even including the terrible anime stuff, the only instance of ridiculous spectacle that fight had was Super Buu screaming reality apart which, again, was the logical extreme of characters yelling holes in reality. The rest of the fight was pretty small-scale and technical. There wasn't any flying through space and destroying planets with the side-effects of their epic battle, that's not how Dragon Ball does big battles.

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#46461: Nov 14th 2016 at 6:46:28 PM

Super does a lot of presentation things wrong.

  • No blood. This severely impacts tension.
  • Transformations are too instantaneous. We want to see people powering up Compare Vegito going to Super Saiyan against Buu with Vegito turning Super Saiyan Blue.
  • There needs to be more destruction in fights, as another poster said.

These are the main ones that stuck out to me.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#46462: Nov 14th 2016 at 6:51:29 PM

"Impact" isn't the word I'd use, but I get the sentiment being expressed.

Lots of attacks, and even movements, were shown to be extremely impressive pre-Battle of Gods. The Beam Struggle between Goku and Vegeta, all the way back in the Saiyan Saga, seems to be a way more powerful and destructive moment than any other Beam Struggle that came after it, even including Gohan vs Cell. Watched out of order, you would almost swear that is where the power scale peaks in the series.

Even though we know the battles in Super are on a higher level according to the story and power of the characters, the visuals, effects and sounds of all the fights makes it feel like there's far less speed and power involved compared to earlier in the series.

Even the Super manga, my preferred format for the current Dragon Ball content, displays this same lack of proper scaling in the visuals and effects at times. It's just something we all have to deal with now.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#46463: Nov 14th 2016 at 7:07:17 PM

@Vegito going Super Saiyan vs Buu vs Vegito going Super Saiyan Blue vs Zamasu: instantaneous in both cases?

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#46464: Nov 14th 2016 at 7:14:14 PM

See, the problem with you guys is that you watched the anime, and got sucked into believing that all the crap that was added in is supposed to be what Dragon Ball is like, so when Dragon Ball Super comes along, and it's paced more akin to the manga, you ingrates complain that everything is too fast and anticlimactic, when you're used to a show slow as molasses that overdramatized every single minor moment in every single fight.

edited 14th Nov '16 7:17:24 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

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#46465: Nov 14th 2016 at 7:14:31 PM

And speaking of, in his first martial arts tournament, Goku created much drama by almost getting ring outs by sending foes flying but in the his match with Piccolo Jr, where he should have been much stronger, the two mainly just send each other skidding across the ground. Even the wall, which had been shattered in the previously two tournaments, only got a little chunk knocked off when Piccolo hit Goku into it. Scale of distance and damage stopped equating to scale of power during the final fight with Daimo Piccolo. The explosions of his blasts were the same size each time but Goku says only the first would have been strong enough to kill him as Piccolo's energy went down. Don't know why those complaints are coming up now.
It's alright, I guess. It's come up again.

But really, it has been explained in the manga's run and then, apparently again in super. Chances are if your explosion is excessively bigger than the intended target you're doing it wrong. Ki in Dragon Ball is compressible to a degree unrealistic by matter/energy standards, even when it's exploding but Dragon Ball is also the world where Blooma can make a shrinking device and Piccolo Jr can grow at will. 'Tis what it what it is.

Buldogue's lawyer
Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#46466: Nov 14th 2016 at 7:18:24 PM

[up][up][up]I don't see why I need to be linking these. A simple youtube search would've sufficed.

Vegito going Super Saiyan against Buu.

Vegito going Super Saiyan Blue

The former builds up to the transformation. You see his muscles expanding, his hair rising and characters reacting to his power. The latter just shows him instantly becoming blue, thereby robbing the moment of the spectacle that should be there.


I find myself wishing that Funimation would get Faulconer to score Super's dub. They can release the original score on the home release for the weeabs and purists.

I know they won't do it, but man I wish they did. TFS was right, the Faulconer track made the Hit fight at least 3x better than it is with the Japanese score.

edited 14th Nov '16 7:22:23 PM by Cruherrx

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#46467: Nov 14th 2016 at 7:25:56 PM

I don't like, or care about, the anime. In the manga, the only good version of the series, Vegito's transformation is instantaneous.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#46468: Nov 14th 2016 at 7:26:05 PM

I'm sorry, but the Hit fight was better with the original music.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#46469: Nov 14th 2016 at 7:32:12 PM

At this point, both pieces fit the scene just as good as each other did.

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LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#46470: Nov 14th 2016 at 7:41:14 PM

I actually have a difficult time remembering most of Super's music (there's the ritual music, Black's theme, and that's pretty much it) while I find Perfect Cell's theme alone is one of the most memorable tracks in the series.

This song needs more love.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#46471: Nov 14th 2016 at 7:42:02 PM

I've read some of the manga, and even without comparing it to the anime it seemed horribly paced and rushed. Admittedly, part of that is that chapters used to be shorter back then, but even without that...

edited 14th Nov '16 7:49:03 PM by LSBK

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#46472: Nov 14th 2016 at 7:43:47 PM

Well, there's horrible pacing on both ends...good to know.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#46473: Nov 14th 2016 at 7:51:05 PM

Though, I'd prefer it being rushed than it dragging its feet to get anywhere, like the Naruto series did with the countless anime filler it had. Especially the anime filler that would show up in the middle of an arc and have absolutely nothing to do with the arc in question, and would run for like five episodes. That's five weeks of a needless filler arc until the main action came back, which became even dumber when the anime was still doing it, even after the manga had been over for close to two years.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#46474: Nov 14th 2016 at 7:55:47 PM

I love the manga's brisk pace. Makes it really nice to read.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#46475: Nov 14th 2016 at 8:00:58 PM

Reading the manga's version of a fight while watching the anime's version of that same fight can be really revealing. A quick and fast-paced combo of punches and kicks in the manga, turns into a dramatic and drawn-out series of devastating blows in the anime, interspersed with minutes of looping fight animation in-between each hit.


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