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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#46326: Nov 13th 2016 at 3:49:48 PM

Just because one thing about it is different doesn't mean nothing about it from before holds true.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#46327: Nov 13th 2016 at 3:59:12 PM

I honestly don't understand how this is apparently a big deal. Elder Kaioshin's been wrong about things before, what's one more? And it's not like this will have any effect on whether or not they could just fuse all the time, back when people thought the only way to defuse a Potara fusion was being inside Buu, people would say 'well, why don't they just Potara fuse to solve all their problems and then get absorbed by Mr. Buu to defuse them?' The only thing this really changes is that Vegito now has a time limit. Okay, so? Who cares if Vegito now has a time limit? He's only shown up twice thus far, and I'd be surprised if he ever shows up again.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#46328: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:01:47 PM

It's all a huge waste of time to use Vegito, for literally all the reasons you brought up.

Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#46329: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:04:38 PM

[up][up]Because every other shonen gets taken to task for their Asspulls, but Dragon Ball somehow gets the Grandfather Clause. tongue

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#46330: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:06:19 PM

[up][up] If that's the case, why use Gogeta?

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#46331: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:07:36 PM

No, Vegito was essential to the thematic dismantling of Zamasu. A stable fusion incorporating the mortal Son Goku, beating up an unstable fusion incorporating the mortal Son Goku's body, with both fusions being the result of the same fusion method, typically reserved for gods.

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#46332: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:08:16 PM

[up][up]Gogeta actually beat someone.

edited 13th Nov '16 4:08:25 PM by LordVatek

This song needs more love.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#46333: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:08:58 PM

In a non-Canon movie huehuehue

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#46334: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:09:54 PM

That's still more than Vegetto accomplished.

This song needs more love.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#46335: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:10:24 PM

No one cares about that. The argument is about the fused being lasting 5 minutes regardless of method. All because of the new retcon.

Yeah. If they wanted to say it's only permanent for Kaioshins and Gods, I can (reluctantly) with that.

Adding that higher levels burn through the fusion is dumb though. If it's supposed to be a more stable fusion, then make it more stable. It lasts until it runs out, and no sooner.

Having it also run out if you use too much power means it's just as reliable as the Dance fusion when it counts (which means not very reliable at all), and it feels like this was done in order to give a good reason why they won't do it from now on.

I mean, I feel like Toriyama goes too far with putting drawbacks to his techniques. He makes them so costly that it makes more sense to just never use them again after seeing them once, just so that we can go back to the same shit they always use.

But then again, I don't know if this is a Toei thing or a Toriyama thing (though our expectations were subverted, which does sound like something he'd do).

One Strip! One Strip!
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#46336: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:12:52 PM

[up] Do you think Trunks miraculously teaching himself how to use the spirit bomb was a Toriyama thing? tongue

edit

Like, I don't want to be overly negative, but this arc of Super gave me so many Fairy Tail vibes.

edited 13th Nov '16 4:13:52 PM by Lionheart0

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#46337: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:13:12 PM

I have my doubts.

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#46338: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:13:52 PM

I mean, I agree that the fusion dance would've been more logical and require less retcons, but the Goku/Vegeta fusion absolutely needed to be Vegito in order to have that parallel of two mortals using a godly fusion method to combat a god, fused with the same method.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#46339: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:14:23 PM

Because everything Vegito accomplished under the retcon could have been done with a Fusion Dance character. That's not an idea made on the desire to see Gogeta, but the reality of how pointless the potara time limit is.

Though after thinking about it, I'm growing increasingly supportive of the retcon. No fused character has ever defeated a Big Bad; Piccolo didn't beat Freeza or Imperfect Cell, Gotenks couldn't get the job done on Super Buu, and Vegito was thrown away as an option when he was still a practical choice against Kid Buu. I don't even mind Vegito failing to to do anything against Zamasu except soften up up for Future Trunks now.

MyssaRei Since: Feb, 2010
#46340: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:19:37 PM

On the bright side, Trunks can finally look forward to rebuilding his world... Though in the aftermath of Black and Zamasu's rampage, I do wonder if the universe of their timeline is pretty much like Dead Space, bereft of intelligent life for maybe eons to come until it can evolve again.

Well, that and babies.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#46341: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:20:31 PM

Hopefully he just stays there now.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#46342: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:32:50 PM

He really shouldn't ever need to come back. There's also the fact that his time machine is gone. One way or another, this should be the last we ever see of him.

And at this point, literally ever threat that he should need to worry about should be dead already (killed by Goku before hand, or likely killed by Black and Zamasu during their Kill all dem dirty mortals crusade.

I mean, if something comes out of nowhere to fuck up Earth this time, then everyone should just lay down on their back and say get it over with.tongue

One Strip! One Strip!
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#46343: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:34:13 PM

No, they must always strive to kick evil's face in. tongue

And again, this Trunks shits all over Xeno Trunks, Mr. Still Doesn't Have Super Saiyan 2.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#46344: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:38:14 PM

I like everyone still arguing this keeps ignoring the thematic point that pushover keeps mentioning. Not that any of it matters anyway.

Deadpoolrocks Since: Sep, 2010
#46345: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:40:53 PM

Trunks will stay there. Until Beerus makes them get him for the tourney, because who else is he going to use? Gohan? hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. no but seriously I can totally see Beerus demanding trunks is on his team because it's technically trunks is technically from his universe alebit another timeline.

MyssaRei Since: Feb, 2010
#46346: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:41:16 PM

[up][up]

Because it does make sense thematically. The execution was a bit lacking though, no question. :)

There were simply a lot of plot conveniences that assured that it would be Trunks to defeat and land the final blow, and a lot of people are bothered by that.

edited 13th Nov '16 4:43:59 PM by MyssaRei

Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#46347: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:43:12 PM

That was more towards everyone repeatedly saying why not just use gogeta. Even though as far as super is concerned that is not a character that has or likely ever will exist

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#46348: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:43:21 PM

[up][up]

Agreed.

edited 13th Nov '16 4:43:37 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#46349: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:44:24 PM

I half expect them to use Gohan and have just flawed execution.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#46350: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:46:29 PM

I mean, Vegito only exists because Gogeta was made for Fusion Reborn before Toriyama could actually make him for the manga proper. Since Toriyama didn't want to disrespect anyone by making his own version of Gogeta for the manga, and thereby send the message that he could do Gogeta better than the original creators of the character, he invented the Potara method of fusing, altered some of the specifics for the fusion, and created Vegito as a result.

[up] Maybe Gohan regains his Ultimate power, and goes even further beyond it thanks to training with Piccolo. Who knows, maybe Super Saiyan 4 gets introduced in the main continuity proper as a Gohan-specific form that lets him reach the same plateau of power as his father.

edited 13th Nov '16 4:48:25 PM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!

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