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LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#44201: Sep 28th 2016 at 4:09:27 PM

It's still done by Toyotaro. I think it was part of the reason why they skipped it. He'd drawn a lot of the movie before. There was no point doing it again.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#44202: Sep 28th 2016 at 4:14:45 PM

Not canon to the Super manga as far as I can tell, otherwise it'd be in the manga. So I think it's clear those chapters he drew were just for hyping the film.

edited 28th Sep '16 4:15:02 PM by VeryMelon

JonnasN from Porto, Portugal Since: Jul, 2012
#44203: Sep 28th 2016 at 5:27:09 PM

Not sure if I'm late to the question, but if I were to rewrite the U6/U7 tournament matches to include the other fighters (while keeping the overall themes and results), I'd go with:

  • First match is Buu against Botamo, played for laughs. Buu can't damage him and the chocolate beam doesn't work, so he throws a tantrum, which ends with a piece of him going out of bounds, eliminating him;
  • Piccolo enters, beats Botamo by ring out. Piccolo is the Comically Serious while dragging a giant bear across the ring;
  • Frost comes in. Piccolo dominates his first form, is about even with his combat/assault form, and is outmatched by the final form. The match against the final form plays out just like in canon, except Frost's needle is ultimately allowed by the referee (cuz Theres No Rule), but considered underhanded and unsportsmanlike. Frost wins the match and loses everybody's respect;

At this point, I'd have the rest play out like it did in the anime, including Vegeta's one punch victory as a Super Saiyan 1. note 

(If I were to also please those who disliked Vegeta holding back against Magetta:

  • Third opponent is Cabba. Match plays out like in the anime (including the SSB reveal);
  • Fourth opponent is Magetta. Match plays out like in the anime, except Vegeta's SSB, and Magetta's power level is adjusted to reflect this change.

But I wouldn't do that. This would mean that Vegeta's genuinely exhausted when he reaches Hitto, and his victory loses impact if Vegeta has a legitimate excuse. I like the anime version of events well enough)

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#44204: Sep 28th 2016 at 5:30:41 PM

Dragon Ball Fusions actually looks really fun.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#44205: Sep 28th 2016 at 5:41:12 PM

At this point, I'd have the rest play out like it did in the anime, including Vegeta's one punch victory as a Super Saiyan 1. note Maybe I'd also incorporate the suggestion that Monaka's weakness was a surprise to Beerus as well (he let go, or the original died and this is a grandson, etc.), and now he's trying to save face, but I can't take credit for that idea

Oh. I like that. It's much less stupid then him purposely blowing a spot to motivate someone who already needs little motivation to get stronger.

One Strip! One Strip!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#44206: Sep 28th 2016 at 6:31:25 PM

"Wait you're Monaka the third!?... oh shit I think I done goofed." - Beerus, probably

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#44207: Sep 28th 2016 at 8:10:59 PM

Yes!

Why didn't he do this?

Why didn't you do it Toriyama? It would have worked just as well without some cheap artificial reason to keep Goku from knowing Monaka is weak.

I mean, with the differences between the Super anime and Manga, I'm wondering how thorough those notes he gave them even were.

What? Did he spend 5 seconds on them and then tell everyone ''just do your own thing"?

One Strip! One Strip!
JonnasN from Porto, Portugal Since: Jul, 2012
#44208: Sep 29th 2016 at 2:03:27 AM

What? Did he spend 5 seconds on them and then tell everyone ''just do your own thing"?

From the sound of it, it does look like he wrote down the bullet points for basic characterization and plot developments, then left the execution (deeper character development & motivations, consistency in continuity & power levels, the required Hand Waves to make them work, etc.) to the other authors.

It's an interesting experiment, to see how the Manga author and Toei execute or interpret things different from one another.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#44209: Sep 29th 2016 at 3:27:38 AM

And that's why Power Levels are, and always will be stupid

Uh, no? That fault has absolutely nothing to do with power levels. It's just lazy writing.

And Yakuzu, I would definitely say the fact that they were holding back makes them worse. None of the fights are so amazing that they can stand up to such scrutiny - none of them are particularly special to begin with.

Depends on if people think Frost is as powerful as Namek Freeza or not. If he isn't, sure let Piccolo beat him, but otherwise Frost should overpower Piccolo.

I'm sorry, what? Piccolo is way stronger than Freeza was on Namek.

Anyway, I wouldn't try to figure out Super power levels. We have more questions than we have answers, nothing has been concretely explained and lots of people are jumping to conclusions or taking some sketchy interpretations as definite fact. It seems every new installment of Super fucks up the rationalizations fans held before it.

As for how I'd do the match ups, that depends, how much am I allowed to change?tongue I usually love to speculate on how I'd rewrite things, but Super just has so many things I wouldn't want to deal with at all.

Simply put, I like the concept of Universe 6 but not following Goku/Vegeta having God powers at the time. It's something I would use if they were still at the Boo arc Ballpark, to make the other characters fit in better and not require them to sandbag every match. And then not much would need to change except that

edited 29th Sep '16 3:59:20 AM by Saiga

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#44210: Sep 29th 2016 at 3:32:04 AM

[up] Agreed.

Power levels and Power Scaling is inconsistent in Super.

"Mai waifu."
hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#44211: Sep 29th 2016 at 4:04:32 AM

You're asking for too much if you want consistency from Toei.

That why you have Zamasu fighting on par with SSB Goku, only to have Trunks (in an objectively inferior form) fight with him without getting one-shotted.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#44212: Sep 29th 2016 at 6:33:12 AM

You're asking for too much if you want consistency from Toei.

Is that the theme of this thread? When in doubt, blame Toei?

edited 29th Sep '16 7:22:16 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#44213: Sep 29th 2016 at 7:17:14 AM

[up] Where you have been for the past couple of years, Toei are clearly the devil.

And Yakuzu, I would definitely say the fact that they were holding back makes them worse. None of the fights are so amazing that they can stand up to such scrutiny - none of them are particularly special to begin with.

Well I disagree, because I still felt like those fights had more meaning to them beyond who's stronger and the fact that Goku and Vegeta were holding back doesn't detract from that for me. If you didn't like them and thought they weren't that good, fine but I just don't agree is all.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
JonnasN from Porto, Portugal Since: Jul, 2012
#44214: Sep 29th 2016 at 7:57:48 AM

Toei has been traditionally inconsistent with power levels/scaling, usually because they'd rather have cool fight scenes than rigid consistency.

Sometimes, they forget that Super Saiyan is supposed to be important. Characters in movies often forget to go Super Saiyan for a good while, and GT just acted like it wasn't that big of an increase in the first place (only SSJ 4 and Golden Oozaru were allowed to be important). Super hasn't been suffering too much from this one (though the Purple Goo filler showed signs of it).

Sometimes, Toei suddenly presents power levels as "skill" levels (a.k.a. punches from weaker opponents still hurt if they land), a concept that runs counter to how it traditionally worked in DBZ, but would explain why the tag team fight with Black/Zamasu went as it did, as well as why the ring beam pierced Goku.

But in Super, the main thing is that they claim that Goku absorbed God Ki into his base form, and then proceeded to ignore that claim, keeping base Goku and Vegeta similar to their Buu Saga selves. Ironically enough, this might be because they wanted to stay consistent with BOG, but then realized it was a hassle to write around that detail. I honestly think they quietly retconned the idea.

Despite all of that, I should say, these inconsistencies haven't been affecting my enjoyment of Super much. In fact, they barely affected my dislike of GT (I disliked it due to several other flaws). There's plenty to like about the franchise, and power levels are but a small part of it.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#44215: Sep 29th 2016 at 8:01:13 AM

Well Toei do essentially have to sell a product so I doubt they care much if power levels make sense as long as it gets them views.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#44216: Sep 29th 2016 at 8:06:05 AM

I'm sorry, what? Piccolo is way stronger than Freeza was on Namek.

Yikes, I fucked that up big time. I meant to say that if Frost was only as strong as Namek Freeza then Piccolo should easily beat Frost.

edited 29th Sep '16 8:06:33 AM by VeryMelon

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#44217: Sep 29th 2016 at 12:44:54 PM

Anyway, Goku Black's identity was just leaked on twitter. Look at your own discretion.

twitter.com/Herms98

edited 29th Sep '16 12:45:09 PM by VeryMelon

DarkHunter from New Mexico Since: Jan, 2001
#44218: Sep 29th 2016 at 12:50:54 PM

I mean, as much as that makes sense... then who was Future Zamasu?

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#44220: Sep 29th 2016 at 12:56:59 PM

Then why is he evil? Also, how did Zamasu get Goku's body anyway; it would either have been sent to the Afterlife like it was the first time Goku died, or it would have decomposed by now due to being buried for over a decade.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#44221: Sep 29th 2016 at 1:03:42 PM

I'm even more confused now.

This song needs more love.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#44222: Sep 29th 2016 at 1:22:44 PM

I didn't look at the Twitter, but I did look at the spoiler spaces here.

You guys rock for not actually saying anything, and I'd advise anyone else who checks that Twitter link to be just as vague.

One Strip! One Strip!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#44223: Sep 29th 2016 at 1:30:00 PM

I await the reveal.

edited 29th Sep '16 3:19:51 PM by VeryMelon

LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#44224: Sep 29th 2016 at 3:18:58 PM

For the first time, I actually don't want to be spoiled on this. I mean, first, we're going to find out in 3 days without that leak. And second...it's a big mystery the series has been hyping up for a while. I want to see The Reveal the way it was meant to be seen.

edited 29th Sep '16 3:19:15 PM by LOLypop1224

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#44225: Sep 29th 2016 at 7:53:35 PM

Sometimes, they forget that Super Saiyan is supposed to be important. Characters in movies often forget to go Super Saiyan for a good while

Which leads to awesome moments like Goku transforming against Cooler, or padding out a fight. Cooler, Broly, Meta Cooler, and maybe Hirudegarn are the films guilty of this. I think that's more dramatic effect than simply "they forgot." Rule of Drama. Imagine Super 13 or Broly or Cooler if Goku had just gone super right away. For that matter Goku continues to f'ck around and not go super to this day.

and GT just acted like it wasn't that big of an increase in the first place (only SSJ 4 and Golden Oozaru were allowed to be important

Serial Escalation. The other forms weren't important because the enemies were stronger - this is the same thing that happened to Kaioken, Super Saiyan 2, and Super Saiyan 3 as the franchise progressed.

Sometimes, Toei suddenly presents power levels as "skill" levels (a.k.a. punches from weaker opponents still hurt if they land), a concept that runs counter to how it traditionally worked in DBZ

Krillin's Destructo Disk > Freeza's tail.

Yajirobe's sword > Vegeta's tail.

Goku and Piccolo's special attacks > Raditz who was several tiers stronger than either of them.

There's plenty to like about the franchise, and power levels are but a small part of it.

I mean there are flaws in Dragonball the anime for sure but "they don't know power levels?" Really? More than half of us here don't agree on power levels. Do we need to go back to how Super Perfect Cell was totally stronger than Gohan? Or how Super Saiyan God is a 300x multiplier? Or how totally awesome and useful Tien is?

Come maaaahn..

edited 29th Sep '16 7:57:35 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!

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