TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Dragon Ball

Go To

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#44151: Sep 28th 2016 at 5:45:03 AM

-proceeds to brutally murder Saiga's parents -

Huh. He's not wrong.

edited 28th Sep '16 5:45:22 AM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#44152: Sep 28th 2016 at 7:00:01 AM

Literally the only reason they weren't power level based was because Goku and Vegeta chose not to use their power levels.

And that's why Power Levels are, and always will be stupid. But we've had that argument too many times.

Anyway, there are, as I've said, some frustrating things about the Tournament:

1) It pretended to be a team fight, just to hide the fact that it was the Goku and Vegeta show;

2) It wasted Frost (in the anime at least) by making him just as bad as Frieza (even if it was in a completely different way)

3) As pointed out by Saiga, the only reason there was any tension was because the aforementioned Goku and Vegeta opted to not go all out from the start (and they let Goku go first so they could create fake tension with him losing to Frost).

Fortunately, there were still some good fights, but there are lots of things that could have been done that weren't done, and opportunities that were wasted, and I honestly want to know who I should be blaming.

One Strip! One Strip!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#44153: Sep 28th 2016 at 7:02:18 AM

Goku and Vegeta not going at their full power didn't make those fights any less enjoyable.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#44154: Sep 28th 2016 at 7:05:47 AM

True.

But the thing is, they could have saved those two for later and actually used the fighters they had (I'd love to see how Buu would have fought against Magetta or Botamo, and Frost didn't need to be so powerful that Piccolo stood no chance like he was, even if the latter used a good strategy to get around it).

And then we could have still had Vegeta vs Cabba, and Goku vs Hit for great finales.

That's just my opinion though, and I'm sure others will say differently.

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#44155: Sep 28th 2016 at 7:08:18 AM

How would you rewrite the U6/U7 tournament match-ups?

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#44156: Sep 28th 2016 at 7:10:24 AM

.....

Don't know. Would have to think about it. And I'm not sure if I want to go there either now that I do think about it.

One Strip! One Strip!
alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#44157: Sep 28th 2016 at 7:20:43 AM

Make it 5 vs 5 instead of 3 vs 5.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#44158: Sep 28th 2016 at 7:28:29 AM

Goku and Vegeta sandbagged because Hit was the only threat to them, and they didn't need to waste energy. In turn, rewriting the tournament would mean giving one of the U7 fighters and extra win if Monaka stays a fraud.

edited 28th Sep '16 8:10:34 AM by VeryMelon

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#44159: Sep 28th 2016 at 7:35:47 AM

You know, why can't they just say that the original Monaka died from old age or natural causes? Beerus sleeps for a long time, so a mortal could easily die in that period of time. Would have made more sense than giving Goku motivation to train.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#44160: Sep 28th 2016 at 7:40:18 AM

Personally, I'd do it exactly the same as in canon, except Piccolo beats Frost and loses to Magetta.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#44161: Sep 28th 2016 at 7:54:50 AM

[up][up][up] Considering how lackluster Vegeta vs. Frost ended up being, I think they could have at least gave Piccolo the win there.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#44162: Sep 28th 2016 at 8:23:49 AM

Depends on if people think Frost is as powerful as Namek Freeza or not. If he isn't, sure let Piccolo beat him, but otherwise Frost should overpower Piccolo. There's also the anime vs. manga power scaling to deal with here, since for a long ass time anime watchers thought Piccolo was God-level.

Here's how I'd rewrite the tournament.

  • Monaka vs. Botamo: Botamo wins.
  • Piccolo vs. Botamo: Piccolo wins.
  • Piccolo vs. Frost: Piccolo wins under the assumption Frost is Namek Freeza level.
  • Piccolo vs. Auta Magetta: Auta Magetta wins
  • Mr. Buu vs. Auta Magetta: Mr. Buu wins
  • Mr. Buu vs. Cabba: Cabba wins
  • Vegeta vs.Cabba: Vegeta wins
  • Vegeta vs. Hit: Hit wins
  • Goku vs. Hit: Hit wins

Looks silly right?

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#44163: Sep 28th 2016 at 8:25:33 AM

Goku being the only one to not get a win would never happen, but it does look more interesting than what happened.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#44164: Sep 28th 2016 at 8:30:39 AM

Oh I understand that. This is all hypothetical fan stuff.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#44165: Sep 28th 2016 at 8:31:41 AM

I'm fine with Piccolo winning despite Frost being more powerful due to a fully-charged direct hit with the Makankosappo drilling him clear out-of-bounds.

edited 28th Sep '16 8:33:14 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#44166: Sep 28th 2016 at 8:32:53 AM

As am I now that I think about it.

One Strip! One Strip!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#44167: Sep 28th 2016 at 9:04:10 AM

I dunno, Goku was trouncing Frost pretty handily with just SSJ 1 so its hard to know where he is on the scale. Though the writing makes it pretty clear that Frost was stronger than Piccolo though by how much is unclear.

So yea, Piccolo winning against him would seem highly implausible and more fanservice than anything else. I guess Goku's suggestion of just softening Frost up for Vegeta could work.

Lol, everyone else (barring Beerus and Whis) are so much weaker than Goku and Vegeta that even trying give them any spotlight moments wouldn't make much sense in the grand scheme of things; its how we got things like ROF where Roshi is somehow contributing on the battlefield regardless if it makes any narrative sense.

That's what makes the whole 5 v. 5 tournament setup a bit superficial to me; unless they pulled new characters from nowhere, there shouldn't be anyone that's even close to being able to contribute to it. So 5 v 5 ends up being 2 v 5.

edited 28th Sep '16 9:08:08 AM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#44168: Sep 28th 2016 at 9:08:11 AM

So why make Frost stronger then Piccolo?

Why have Goku even fight him? Goku already had his re-match with Frieza. He didn't need another.

Frost being stronger then Namek era Frieza was ok, but they had to make him monumentally stronger then Piccolo for some reason as well. We still got some interesting stuff out of it in the Makankosappo / Special Beam Canon, but there were a lot of other ways they could have gone.

One Strip! One Strip!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#44169: Sep 28th 2016 at 9:32:19 AM

If he's weaker than Piccolo, who's already weaker than Goku or Vegeta, then it begs the question of why Champa would even choose him to begin with.

Just have Goku and Piccolo switch spots, the general storyline stays the same...though Goku would never actually get a win, but I think that's fine.

edited 28th Sep '16 9:35:37 AM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#44170: Sep 28th 2016 at 10:14:44 AM

The thing with Frost is that they wanted to be unpredictable by having Goku go first and be shockingly "eliminated" from the tournament. It didn't work for two reasons, first it was a fake out that was revealed to be a fake out very quickly and probably didn't convince anyone and second, Goku is so much stronger than Piccolo that having the letter fight anyone who Goku didn't one shot and put up a fight is just silly and creates consistency issues.

Really, it would have been better if Picollo just went first, beat Botamo, lost to Frost and after that the rest of the tournament can go on as it did.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#44171: Sep 28th 2016 at 10:27:47 AM

Goku isn't that much stronger than Piccolo though. Assault Form Frost was already stronger than Base Goku, and Piccolo was putting up something resembling a fight against Final Form Frost. The in-universe justification for Piccolo being as strong as he is is a bit flimsy, but as it stands, Piccolo is somewhere in-between base and Super Saiyan 1 Goku.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#44172: Sep 28th 2016 at 10:32:36 AM

Good job missing the point.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#44173: Sep 28th 2016 at 10:35:27 AM

The thing where Goku and Vegeta hold back for the whole tournament is another example of the series having to deal with the fact that it made it's major characters so incredibly strong while sometimes doing arcs where their power needs to be more even.

You see that a lot ever since Yo Son Goku And His Friends Return - sometimes, Toriyama wants to tell a certain kind of story with the characters, but the characters' way of entering the story would have to be colored by the power levels that have been clearly established thus far, so he just writes around it or handwaves somehow and tells the story he wants anyway.

Which I think is a good thing, and well worth the eyebrow raises those moments sometimes cause due to the greater range it allows. It's not only how we got Vegeta vs Magetta (which I agree is one of the best battles in Super), but also how we got Roshi fighting against Freeza's soldiers after all.

It's there in the Future Trunks arc too. Black, even before his boost, and Zamasu are powerful enough to wipe out solar systems at once and have huge cosmic level battles, but they meticulously attack city by city, a la the last threat to hit that timeline, and never exert any power more spectacular than what we saw in the Android saga, because ultimately it's not that kind of story.

Likewise, Goku and Beerus (and Whis, but he never does anything) could take out Past Zamasu at any time, so there's a whole thing around proving that he is what he appears. The series then breaking protocol by having Beerus just ice him and avert the You Cannot Thwart Stage One expectation is doubly cool because of the lead-up.

edited 28th Sep '16 10:36:49 AM by KnownUnknown

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#44174: Sep 28th 2016 at 10:36:04 AM

I seem to remember almost all of the fanbase loving Frost and going to any lengths to justify Goku getting knocked out of bounds, from Goku willingly forfeiting, to Frost using pressure points, to Frost having a poison needle, but that's fine and natural. It was a VERY effective fake-out, and we fell for it HARD.

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#44175: Sep 28th 2016 at 10:42:33 AM

I feel like "stamina drain" has been the go to excuse for quite a while hasn't it?

At this point,SSB Gogeta would last for just a second.


Total posts: 130,800
Top