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IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43826: Sep 17th 2016 at 5:30:59 PM

[up][up]The Kaioken built up and wasted?

I'd like to remind you, the Kaioken was how Goku beat Hit.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#43827: Sep 17th 2016 at 5:34:47 PM

And Gohan didn't go backwards, he accomplished his dream.

[up] Yeah, it's actually relevant again.

edited 17th Sep '16 5:35:17 PM by Cortez

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#43828: Sep 17th 2016 at 5:34:49 PM

[up][up] Only in the anime though, and even then Hit improved again during that, and dodged Goku's final punch in the Super Kaio-ken x10 state with a Time Skip/Freeze.

edited 17th Sep '16 5:35:03 PM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#43829: Sep 17th 2016 at 5:36:09 PM

The anime is what matters in this instance, so was your point?

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#43830: Sep 17th 2016 at 5:38:04 PM

The funniest thing about this arc is that nobody even bothers to tell Gohan anything is happening. Though, he himself never bothers to ask Trunks about pretty much anything, during like six hours visit.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#43831: Sep 17th 2016 at 5:38:04 PM

Plus, both the manga and anime had Goku imply that Hit would win if he wasn't holding back his killing techniques because of the tournament's rules; so really, Goku only beats Hit in a tournament setting.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#43832: Sep 17th 2016 at 5:39:54 PM

Doesn't really change the fact that the Super Kaioken greatly helped during that fight.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#43833: Sep 17th 2016 at 5:49:41 PM

Goku and Vegeta are getting into stuff so far beyond the rest of the characters that the series could seriously just split itself into "The Godly Adventures of the Platonic Saiyan Bros" and "Everybody Else: Defenders of Earth." That way everyone has a place to shine.

Hey, I'd watch both. Only half-joking.

Dragon ball as a whole doesn't really do recurring villains.

They pretty much always get killed off in the arc they get introduced in, unless they are going to be kept around to Heel–Face Turn later.

Frieza is pretty much the only dude who's managed to come back (and actually be somewhat of a threat the second time), and that's due to pure popularity.

Why do you guys think that is?

This has always been a series built on a straightforward arc - every storyline is built around the meeting, build-up and final dramatic confrontation with the villain. The villains are centered around the plots that create them, and so once that plot is over there's not much new they can bring to the table (even Freeza's return isn't really a storyline, just a big rematch with a lot of fanfare, and you can only really pull that gimmick once) - not to mention that due to the way the series handles stuff like power levels repeatedly bringing us the same villains again and again wouldn't work well unless there's something very different about them that makes them distinctive from their initial incarnation (in which case it might be better to just use someone new).

Toriyama did to some "introduce a villain, use them as a different kind of antagonist later" with Pilaf, Tao, Piccolo and of course Vegeta, but on the whole he doesn't do it. P Ilaf is probably the best example of a recurring villain in Toriyama's style - his villainy is there to be humorous, not dramatic, so when he continues to do it he's adding lighthearted absurdity and fun asides rather than pulling a serious plot we've already seen (IMO it works, too - Ep. 43 is still one of my favorite episodes of Super).

edited 17th Sep '16 5:53:34 PM by KnownUnknown

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#43834: Sep 17th 2016 at 5:53:08 PM

Recurring villains doesn't really mesh with the series biggest (and only consistent) theme: getting stronger. Reaching higher.

Once you've beaten a villain, yes logically they could get just as strong as the next guy would be to keep with that escalation, but it doesn't have the same emotional weight as always rising up to the level of a new challenge.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#43835: Sep 17th 2016 at 5:56:50 PM

Hence why every returning villain (except Piccolo, if you count him as "returning," and recently Freeza) next appears as a minor threat in the course of a different villain's story.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#43836: Sep 17th 2016 at 5:57:32 PM

Also, most of them end up dead after they are beaten. Those who don't usually make a Heel–Face Turn.

LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#43837: Sep 17th 2016 at 7:14:50 PM

And then they can get beaten by the next, stronger villains to show how much stronger those new threats are and the cycle continues.

Although I guess the weird thing about Super is they haven't done that so far. Beerus is always going to be stronger than everyone in the main cast, and he's the closest to a Heel–Face Turn we've seen in this series.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43838: Sep 17th 2016 at 7:27:38 PM

[up]Whis is arguably part of the main cast and he says hi.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#43839: Sep 17th 2016 at 7:32:17 PM

Present Zamasu might.

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#43840: Sep 17th 2016 at 10:47:31 PM

Recurring villains doesn't really mesh with the series biggest (and only consistent) theme: getting stronger. Reaching higher. Once you've beaten a villain, yes logically they could get just as strong as the next guy would be to keep with that escalation, but it doesn't have the same emotional weight as always rising up to the level of a new challenge.

Dragon Ball did have this thing where the previous villain gets defeated to establish a new villain but Dragon Ball is hardly the only offender of this trope. It is serial gag battle manga series about a guy who wants to be the ultimate fighting badass, not a superhero comic where the heroes struggle against evil villains and themselves,

edited 17th Sep '16 10:47:58 PM by GAP

"Mai waifu."
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#43841: Sep 17th 2016 at 11:04:25 PM

They did it all the way up til Freeza...unless you want to count Trunk as a villain (as I would)...then they never really stopped doing it until God Battles.

Trunks lose to 17&18 loses to Cell...18 dies to Boo lose to Kid Boo...Boo loses to Bills...who stopped being a villain.

edited 17th Sep '16 11:07:16 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#43842: Sep 17th 2016 at 11:55:22 PM

More proof of a western release for Fusions.

Also, a new update adds online battles and a new stage for Fusions in Japan.

The new area, Jikuukan Radar, uses the 3DS's wifi to connect with nearby networks which unlock wormholes that have rare characters to fight and unlock. There'll also be an online mode where you battle friends, random people and even trade.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#43843: Sep 17th 2016 at 11:59:10 PM

With Beerus they're doing an interesting thing where the big climactic battle ends with him still being stronger, and him thus still being the "end goal" for Goku to become as powerful as he can be, but still having later threats one-up him by being situations he's incapable of solving straight out even with his strength and having him sometimes just as lost as the others.

In the Future Trunks arc, for example, he has no idea what's going on and that bugs him at first, but it's not too important to him. Its a seemingly mundane situation (by his standards), but then it evolves into a serious divine conspiracy that could very well concern him and the gods in general and he still doesn't know what's going on. So he acts cool and smug, but thematically he's still in the "supporting character in a larger threat" role. Likewise with Champa he was incapable of acting directly, but rather than being because he wasn't powerful to do it was because he and Champa were literally too powerful to do so and thus had to take a backseat.

It leads to interesting situations where he's alongside the heroes trying to figure out how to deal with the current situation, but in a snap he can remind us that it's still in him to be an antagonist. And Whis has been giving off a neat "what if Kami or Supreme Kai had actually been stronger than everybody, but were still Mr. Exposition characters who couldn't do much more than guide" vibe.

edited 18th Sep '16 12:24:27 AM by KnownUnknown

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43845: Sep 18th 2016 at 10:32:09 AM

You know, every time I hear that, I expect QUALITY card art.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#43846: Sep 18th 2016 at 10:44:03 AM

Such a name made me hope for a Vegeta with a handlebar moustache.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#43847: Sep 18th 2016 at 12:43:43 PM

Got any of them new episodes?

DarkHunter from New Mexico Since: Jan, 2001
#43848: Sep 18th 2016 at 1:38:19 PM

Looks like episode 59 has been delayed until next week. Don't know why.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#43849: Sep 18th 2016 at 1:50:52 PM
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43850: Sep 18th 2016 at 1:52:05 PM

Let's go riot! Riot! Let's go to RIOT!

Imma go play WWE Smackdown VS Raw 2006 now, because I think I first heard that song there and now I wanna check.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari

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