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Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#43651: Sep 9th 2016 at 10:50:01 PM

Not all villains are made to be likable. Most villains are created to be Hate Sinks.

And Black wasn't even trying against Goku. Remember, Goku said to use his full power and Black said no, I'm going to enjoy myself. He never once showed fear of Goku, despite knowing that he had more powerful transformations and Beerus was right there watching the fight like pay-per-view. Also, according to Trunks, Black was at least as strong as Super Saiyan 3 Goku, so at full power, Super Saiyan 2 Goku wouldn't be a challenge to him. And the Recoom fight is one among dozen of fights that Goku didn't fight all out.

Super Saiyan 3 Goku who fought Beerus is not Super Saiyan 3 Goku who fought Trunks. Goku's freaking base is stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks. That is way stronger than Goku at his max power before he fought Beerus. Super Saiyan is not a level, it's a multiplier of a Saiyan's base form. Frieza was scared of Beerus and asked his permission to kill Goku. Black just notes Beerus and didn't care. And he only blew up the planet because he was about to be killed. It wasn't like it was the first thing Frieza did.

Black wasn't surprised by Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, so he knew Goku and Vegeta had access to that form. If he knew, why didn't he care about fighting Goku if he thought Goku's full power could stomp him in seconds?

That isn't true. He begged and pestered Beerus into fighting him, despite King Kai telling him not to. He also wanted to fight Frieza when he heard how powerful he was, again ignoring King Kai's warning to stay away. What he did to Zamasu was no different than what he did to Beerus.

And what does Bulma being a girl have to do with this? Goku was still rude to Bulma, calling her weak and a pain.

Also, how can Future Zamasu and Black be the same person when they literally stood next to each other? I also don't believe Black is Zamasu in any form.

edited 9th Sep '16 10:52:53 PM by Ramona122003

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#43652: Sep 10th 2016 at 12:55:52 AM

I wonder if this storyline is going to end with Zamasu witnessing the sadism of his alternate future self and deciding to not go down the same path just before the decision that would have sealed his fate down the dark path.

And then getting killed by alt-Zamasu or Black, because this is DBZ.

Also, it'd be hilarious for him to become this storyline's "once bad guy who joins the cast and forms an adorable friendship/romance with another one of the group."

edited 10th Sep '16 12:58:30 AM by KnownUnknown

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#43653: Sep 10th 2016 at 1:31:22 AM

[up]I doubt the writers have that much creativity anymore.

edited 10th Sep '16 1:31:38 AM by hardcorefakes

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#43654: Sep 10th 2016 at 1:59:09 AM

How is it creativity when it has been done before? Actually deviating from that would be creative. That and not wanting to be like your evil self, while interesting, not really brand new either.

Besides, present day Zamasu already killed a mortal in cold blood.

Also, Soble, you're making a lot of assumptions.

[up][up]

Hit already fits the foe turned rival mold though.

edited 10th Sep '16 2:04:26 AM by Cortez

Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#43655: Sep 10th 2016 at 4:36:15 AM

@Cortez, glad I'm not the only one who found doing something Dragon Ball is known for equals being creative strange.

Honestly, having irremediably bastasds would be a little different, since the only main villains who remained evil to the bitter end are King Piccolo, Frieza, Cell, and Super Buu. Even Kid Buu becomes good through being reborn into Uub.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#43656: Sep 10th 2016 at 4:44:57 AM

And Ninja Murasaki, General Blue, Taopaipai, Staff Officer Black, Tambourine, Drum, Cymbal, Raditz, Nappa, Dodoria, Zarbon, Guldo, Recoome, Burter, Jeice, Ginyu, King Cold, Dr. Gero, Android 19, Pocus, Yakon, Dabura, Sorbet, Shisami, Tagoma, and Frost.

EDIT: whoops, didn't see the word 'main'. Staff Officer Black still applies.

edited 10th Sep '16 4:46:33 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43657: Sep 10th 2016 at 7:54:06 AM

King Piccolo, Cell and Super Buu didn't have a choice in being evil tho. They were either made of Evil (King Piccolo), made for the express purpose of being evil and composed of all the right ingredients to make a seriously evil bastard (Cell) or are basically monsters with no concept of morality (Super Buu).

Incidentally, Buu becomes smarter the more smart people he absorbs.

Would he become Good if he absorbed enough good people? I mean, we know absorptions affect his morality, since we know that Fat Buu is less evil and more 'has no concept of morality and when taught of it accepts it and starts applying it'... So I wonder, would absorbing a bunch of good people make Buu good?

Probably. But anything that makes him 'good' would probably also make him suicidally guilty over killing and eating all those people in the first place.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#43658: Sep 10th 2016 at 8:02:59 AM

[up][up]

Not sure the Ginyu Force count, they did have a villainous friendshipgoing.

And Dabura did go all peace and love.

edited 10th Sep '16 8:07:25 AM by Cortez

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#43659: Sep 10th 2016 at 8:05:20 AM

Ah, but I thought about that! That was AFTER the bitter end!

Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#43660: Sep 10th 2016 at 11:16:47 AM

Super Buu and Cell had a choice to be evil. That is why they're listed on the Complete Monster page, while King Piccolo and Kid Buu can't be listed. Also, Super Buu absorbed three good characters (Piccolo, Gotenks, and Gohan), and he was still a monster.

Also, Officer Black wasn't the main villain. He's just the last man standing since the Big Bad was Red.

edited 10th Sep '16 11:20:19 AM by Ramona122003

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43661: Sep 10th 2016 at 11:22:52 AM

Majin Buu, before the retcon, was literally Pure Evil. It didn't get a choice, it just was. Super Buu is more intelligent, but it's still Pure Evil in control.

Cell was made to be evil and likely either programmed by the computer or through subliminal messaging or through the same machines that gave him all the memories he needed, to make sure he was evil. Cell never had a choice.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#43662: Sep 10th 2016 at 11:41:12 AM

I mean, Cell was compelled to get to his perfect form, no matter what. But he admits he has no reason to do anything he does after that besides just enjoying seeing how terrified people are before he kills them.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43663: Sep 10th 2016 at 11:46:09 AM

Again, made to be evil from the cells of very bad people.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#43664: Sep 10th 2016 at 11:53:28 AM

I'd say genetically being evil was stupid but apparently all of the techniques he used were genetic so...

But that doesn't change the fact that Cell acknowledges he doesn't have to do anything he does, at least beyond becoming perfect.

edited 10th Sep '16 12:29:51 PM by LSBK

Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#43665: Sep 10th 2016 at 11:55:42 AM

That is Alternative Character Interpretation on Cell, especially since the show never said Cell's evilness was genetics. If genetics was an excuse, Frieza would be classified as pure evil since he's a mutant born unnaturally cruel.

Kid Buu is the only pure evil form. Super Buu had several good characters, including two Kais from Fat Buu, so he wasn't pure evil anymore, and he was the most evil form of Buu since he knew better unlike Fat and Kid Buu.

edited 10th Sep '16 11:59:58 AM by Ramona122003

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#43666: Sep 10th 2016 at 12:20:32 PM

Kid Buu is a mindless force, but Super Buu was intelligent enough to understand the concept of morality and actively chose to continue being evil.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#43667: Sep 10th 2016 at 12:48:45 PM

This post

Given Dragonball's nature, for all we know he has a button for every universe, that when pressed makes the corresponding universe explode. The statement made about him is that vague.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#43668: Sep 10th 2016 at 1:48:50 PM

That's still the power to destroy a universe on a whim, which is more power than any character we've seen in the series.

My various fanfics.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43669: Sep 10th 2016 at 2:47:23 PM

Just because Super Buu was more intelligent than Kid Buu does not mean he understood morality. Just because it's clever doesn't mean it isn't still basically an animal doing the only thing it knows how to do - fight and destroy.

And I know that the thing with Cell is me interpreting his character in a way other than what is readily apparent, but then again, Cell is basically a being who has achieved his one goal in life and knows nothing but being evil. Still evil, but he didn't exactly choose to be evil, evil is simply all that he knows. It's what he was created to do.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#43670: Sep 10th 2016 at 3:14:19 PM

Super Buu still wasn't pure evil and he understood the implication of his actions. You are just speculating the rest. Fat Buu is closer to your idea of Super Buu.

Cell chose to evil. He happily embraced his dark nature during his final showdown with Gohan. He said Gero created him to destroy the universe, and he had no problem with that. Before, he said he was created to kill Goku and he blew that off to do his own thing. So it wasn't like he was bond to Gero's will.

edited 10th Sep '16 3:20:31 PM by Ramona122003

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43671: Sep 10th 2016 at 3:24:17 PM

Super Buu was pure evil though. It's Kid Buu in charge there. Fat Buu took all the good with him when they separated.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#43672: Sep 10th 2016 at 4:59:31 PM

Kid Buu wasn't in charge of Super Buu. Kid Buu cannot be in charge, because Kid Buu is Buu without anything in charge.

Remember, Super Buu CEASED TO BE once Mr.Buu was unplugged.

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#43673: Sep 10th 2016 at 5:28:09 PM

Current running in-universe Black theory: Whis thinks that Zamasu used the Super Dragon Balls to wish for a copy of Goku, jumped a year into the future, and wished for immortality though he admits that there are still holes.

edited 10th Sep '16 5:28:30 PM by LordVatek

This song needs more love.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#43674: Sep 10th 2016 at 5:37:21 PM

Yeah, it's Pure Evil Boo in charge there. A different personality, born from Fat Boo's evil.

Which would have to be related to Pure Boo in some way, but clearly Evil Boo doesn't see them as being the same.

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#43675: Sep 10th 2016 at 5:54:24 PM

This post

That literally makes no sense, especially in regards to my initial post.

That's like saying the criminals that killed Buu's dog are stronger than Satan because their guns killed him.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."

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