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Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#43376: Aug 30th 2016 at 11:29:30 PM

I actually can't picture the form without the eyeshadow; it's too ingrained into my image of it, like the tail.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#43377: Aug 30th 2016 at 11:31:50 PM

I say that it being gone would benefit, but the eyeshadow is the least noticeable thing about the design to me.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#43378: Aug 30th 2016 at 11:32:58 PM

SSJ4 is better designed than both God forms in my opinion. Nothing will change my mind on this.

edited 30th Aug '16 11:33:11 PM by LordVatek

This song needs more love.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#43379: Aug 30th 2016 at 11:34:41 PM

Would that be because it has an actual design?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#43380: Aug 30th 2016 at 11:40:52 PM

Super Saiyan 4 just doesn't look like something from Dragon Ball. More like something from a shitty Dragon Ball fanfiction by some edgelord Vegeta fan who completely misunderstands the themes and tone of the series, as a whole.

Which is exactly what it was, so I guess that fits.

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#43382: Aug 30th 2016 at 11:44:17 PM

[up][up][up]Yeah but it also has a better designed story role as well. Standard God lost its first and only fight before becoming irrelevant immediately afterwards by Beyond God and Blue was boring because it had no challenge until Hit where it became useless and irrelevant by Blue + Kaioken. Now it's become even more useless thanks to Rose.

SSJ4 on the other hand stopped being overpowered but kept being used because it was still the most useful form they had. The only other good guy to top it was Gogeta and that doesn't really count.

[up][up]Putting aside for now that edgy has become a totally worthless expression along with Mary Sue and "literally", what exactly makes it edgy? Because contrary to popular belief, black and red does not edgy make.

edited 30th Aug '16 11:51:37 PM by LordVatek

This song needs more love.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#43383: Aug 30th 2016 at 11:53:33 PM

It hadn't become useless to anything yet...combinations are cool though.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#43384: Aug 31st 2016 at 12:02:44 AM

[up][up]....Why are you treating Kaioken + Blue as a separate form? Its still Super Saiyan Blue lol

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#43385: Aug 31st 2016 at 2:06:39 AM

SSJ 4 has some stuff I like. I just can't get over 1) the eyeliner 2) the fact eye colour seemed to be just chosen at random and 3) Magic Pants.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#43386: Aug 31st 2016 at 2:09:41 AM

They were magic before he turned SSJ4...so it's not the form's fault.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#43387: Aug 31st 2016 at 2:16:54 AM

Super Saiyan 4 was handled in a quite suboptimal way, with the whole magical deal.

Have it remplaze the great ape once both the great ape and the super saiyan are controllable. Bam, weremonkeys on a full moon or with an artificial source, and regular super saiyan forms otherwise.

But yeah, GT screwed up potentially good stuff.

MyssaRei Since: Feb, 2010
#43388: Aug 31st 2016 at 2:31:15 AM

So we know that being a God of Destruction is a job, and being a Kaiohshin is a job... Sooo, how does the "dead Kaiohshin = dead Hakaishi" work out in a situation where there are multiple Kaioshin running around, like it was in one point in universe 7? Will reality just automatically "correct" itself if ALL the Kaiohs die out, and not just the guy who's most senior? For example, if (Western) Kaiohshin got himself killed without Old Kai around, Beerus would also go, right?

BUT if there's someone who the "position" of Kaiohshin to get passed to — like in a situation where both West and Old Kai are around, then one of them kicks the bucket for some reason —- then the current God of Destruction will remain untouched... Right?

edited 31st Aug '16 2:33:10 AM by MyssaRei

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43389: Aug 31st 2016 at 3:53:19 AM

I have no idea why you would think that 'literally' has become worthless because some people who literally don't know what 'literally' means use it wrong.

Yes, I know lots of dumbos use it to mean 'I want to emphasize this', but that literally has no bearing on whether the word has lost its meaning or not simply because dumb people who don't know things usually don't get to decide how language works.

And I say usually because the Royal Spanish Academy has, in the past, adopted neologisms born not out of creativity or applied common sense, but rather born out of stupidity, laziness and irresponsibility.

So yes, Spanish as a language has been steadily getting dumber and dumber because people who can't be bothered to learn it are being legitimized by the authorities. I hate Spanish as a language, by the by.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#43390: Aug 31st 2016 at 5:05:10 AM

The meaning of a word belongs to its users, not to the word. Languages evolve over time, and so does the meaning of words, and deeming an acception as outright wrong, while the people using it understand it, is outright elitism.

Hypocrisy test: do you make an effort to keep "z/c" and "s" phonetically different? Do you use different pronouns to interact with people according to degree of familiarity and respect?

If you aren't, well, you are falling in the same issues you are condemning.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#43391: Aug 31st 2016 at 6:54:29 AM

Setting aside the oddity of calling any instances of Goku using Kaioken in a Super Saiayn Form a separate transformation, It's not really fair to say Super Saiyan Rose outperforms Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. Goku Black is already that strong in base, so of course he's going to be way higher than Goku using the equivalent form.

edited 31st Aug '16 7:20:59 AM by VeryMelon

Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#43392: Aug 31st 2016 at 7:15:16 AM

Won't lie, I hate Super Saiyan 4. It's a design that I literally hate more with age. I'll take recolored Super Saiyan over that thing any day. Which is sad because I actually like the idea behind Super Saiyan 4.

"So we know that being a God of Destruction is a job, and being a Kaiohshin is a job... Sooo, how does the "dead Kaiohshin = dead Hakaishi" work out in a situation where there are multiple Kaioshin running around, like it was in one point in universe 7? Will reality just automatically "correct" itself if ALL the Kaiohs die out, and not just the guy who's most senior? For example, if (Western) Kaiohshin got himself killed without Old Kai around, Beerus would also go, right? BUT if there's someone who the "position" of Kaiohshin to get passed to — like in a situation where both West and Old Kai are around, then one of them kicks the bucket for some reason —- then the current God of Destruction will remain untouched… Right"

The God of Destruction is a job, but the Kais are born gods. It's not a position appointed to them. Even Zamasu was a Kai before he got promoted to a Supreme Kai. He was just lower Kai like King Kai.

edited 31st Aug '16 7:20:30 AM by Ramona122003

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#43393: Aug 31st 2016 at 7:20:05 AM

I like Super Saiyan 4. It's Saiyan evolution come full circle, bringing the giant monkey concept back into the fold. Super Saiyan God is like "how, why, what?"

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#43394: Aug 31st 2016 at 7:24:15 AM

I like Super Saiyan 4, but I've also warmed up to the God forms as well. My only issue with them now are their names.

Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#43395: Aug 31st 2016 at 7:25:33 AM

What Weaksauce Weakness does Super Saiyan God has besides a time lime like the Fusion Dance. Not to mention, Super Saiyan 4 was also an 11th-Hour Superpower and Muscles Are Meaningless has been a theme in Dragon Ball since the series started.

Also, Toriyama has been moving away from the Saiyans being monkeys idea since the end of the Frieza Saga. Toriyama even went as far as to say that Saiyans' tails are useless, Goten and Trunks are so strong because they're tailless hybrids, and the Saiyans in U6 evolved past the need for them. So the whole monkey-man idea was a long abandon idea from the original creator.

Them becoming gods does make sense when you considered that Goku and the others were already Physical Gods and fighting gods is the next logical step since they already beat all the strongest beings in the universe and an Eldritch Abomination.

edited 31st Aug '16 7:28:24 AM by Ramona122003

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#43396: Aug 31st 2016 at 7:44:57 AM

What Weaksauce Weakness does Super Saiyan God has besides a time lime like the Fusion Dance.

It lasts for 5 minutes.

Five minutes. That is like the most arbitrary restraint on godlike power ever. Especially when you can apparently just train your body to Super Saiyan Blue or Golden Freeza levels.

Eleventh Hour Superpower

I should amend that: that trope, and Ass Pull.

Slightly less so. At least 4 was another extension of Saiyan ability - which Vegeta had already validated after getting beaten by 18 and Gohan and Goku followed suit, so there was a precedent for another form existing. Super Saiyan God was another legend of the Saiyan people that not even Vegeta, the main source of information about the Saiyans, knew about, and requires me to assume that there was actually another even stronger Super Saiyan once upon a time that was on par with Beerus who couldn't stop the Saiyans from being evil and wasn't intuitive enough to memorize the ability.

If we follow Dragonball Minus, we know there are Good Saiyans around, so the fact that none of them attempted the God ritual again to beat Freeza is dumb. If Vegeta and Gohan are considered righteous enough for the ritual to work, I'd find it hard to believe that there weren't any Saiyans around back then to foot the bill. Apparently, like Ninshu in Naruto, an entire society forgot an incredibly useful ability their ancestors created that almost anybody could do - but at least Naruto had a character that was actively sabotaging history.

And then, why does an ancient warrior race have a ritual that grants them godly power to begin with? 4 came out of nowhere, but even though they needed to forcibly pull Goku's tail out of his spine, it still felt like less of an Ass Pull than the assertion that the Saiyans had two incredibly powerful transformations and nobody remembers the one that turns you into a god.

and Muscles Are Meaningless has been a theme in Dragon Ball since the series started.

...since? Last I checked Goku and Vegeta were ripped and their Super Form's made them buffer, as did Freeza, Cell, and Buu's. Super Saiyan God was the first and only form that made Goku smaller.

Them becoming gods does make sense when you considered that Goku and the others were already Physical Gods and fighting gods is the next logical step since they already beat all the strongest beings in the universe and an Eldritch Abomination.

I don't see it that way. I mean, I actually agree with Melon in that I don't hate the god forms and I've warmed up to them, but if this is a good old internet mud-slinging match between the two, I'm backing Super Saiyan 4 for its design and not having to say "Super Saiya-Jin God-doh Supa Sai-ya Jin" every time.

edited 31st Aug '16 8:15:21 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#43397: Aug 31st 2016 at 7:46:54 AM

They're not overly ripped, though. And Frieza's maximum power drains him something fears and Super Saiyan Grade 3 (I think?) was discarded purely because all the bulky muscle wasn't worth the speed decrease.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#43398: Aug 31st 2016 at 7:49:01 AM

And Super Saiyan Grade 3 proved that bulking up is a hindrance in combat.

[nja]

edited 31st Aug '16 7:51:09 AM by VeryMelon

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#43399: Aug 31st 2016 at 8:04:36 AM

Honestly, God forms are almost indistinguishable from a fan made super sayian form. It hits all the points, like:

  • A grandiose name. - Check

  • A weird, obscure method of activation that comes from previously unmentioned lore - Check

  • A vague but amazing power up - Check

  • Visually speaking, it's just a recolor of a previous form - Check

Seriously, go here and tell me Super Sayian God would look out of place.

I still like it more than Super Sayian 4, tho. tongue

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#43400: Aug 31st 2016 at 8:08:46 AM

Those are drawbacks true, but the muscles themselves weren't meaningless. They were a hindrance because the fighters didn't have the stamina for them - without them, Freeza couldn't phase Goku, and Trunks couldn't phase Perfect Cell. Vegeta bulking up helped against Semi Perfect Cell.

I mean yeah in a sense, anytime they get really buffed it's pointless. But the fighters are still pretty buff on their own. I mean find someone in Dragonball of any importance that doesn't have a six pack. Gohan is a ripped teenager.

They're not overly ripped, though.

I'm fairly sure Chi-Chi knew what she was purchasing because Goku is cut like a diamond.

God forms are almost indistinguishable from a fan made super sayian form. It hits all the points

Eh, still not as bad as Super Saiyan 10 with the plume of silver hair that reaches below Goku's feet.

edited 31st Aug '16 8:27:26 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!

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