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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#42651: Aug 8th 2016 at 9:34:42 PM

Wrong, there's Garlic Jr. who was very clearly had in mind what Vegeta and Frieza did. If either of them had gotten their wish we could say for certain.

And there different versions of the same thing all over this series. There's no reason to believe that the Eternal Dragons are bound by the same limits of the potion or whatever it was that allows Roshi to stay alive.

edited 8th Aug '16 9:35:33 PM by LSBK

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#42652: Aug 8th 2016 at 9:36:22 PM

Toriyama hasn't had another canon form of immortality then.

Garlic jr. doesn't count, even if he is one of the few villains to actually get that wish (or get his wish period until Frieza's men wished him back).

One Strip! One Strip!
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#42653: Aug 8th 2016 at 9:40:42 PM

[nja]'d (last page)

But Roshi's immortality is the only example of the concept. Unless we count Garlic Jr, and even in his case, no one was powerful enough to test his healing factor, if any.

We have no reason to assume that Porunga and Shenron would be capable of making someone invulnerable. We know that their magical abilities are throttled by the power of their creator.

Neither Vegeta or Freeza truly understood the function or the limitations of the Dragonballs so their interpretations don't really matter. And besides that, I don't know if I believe that Shenron/Kami's power could make Vegeta completely impervious to harm - and if it did then, going back to the previous argument, he'd never get any Zenkais and Freeza would just bat him around the asteroid belt for all eternity like a cosmic chew toy.

edited 8th Aug '16 9:43:18 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#42654: Aug 8th 2016 at 9:43:21 PM

Throttled by the power of their creator usually just seems to mean they can't act on anyone stronger than their creator without their consent. The two have done all sorts of ridiculous things their creators obviously can't do themselves like bringing back the dead and rebuilding planets. I don't see how making someone invulnerable is more ridiculous than either.

I'm not saying they could definitely do it, I'm just saying there's no reason to assume they can't either. Like I said before, different things accomplishing the same task, with one doing so more effectively, isn't that uncommon here.

But, Pushover, for once it seems like people are actually on your side!

edited 8th Aug '16 10:00:02 PM by LSBK

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#42655: Aug 8th 2016 at 9:56:30 PM

Nooo!

I have nothing against Pushover, but I must defeat him because I must always be right!

So um....I'm just gonna say I'm right. Problem solved.

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#42656: Aug 8th 2016 at 10:17:01 PM

Kami recreated the moon. Rebuilding a planet is completely within the realm of possibility.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#42657: Aug 8th 2016 at 10:18:24 PM

Yes, because rebuilding something the size of Australia is the same thing as rebuilding something as large as an actual planet.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#42658: Aug 8th 2016 at 10:20:47 PM

He still never revived anyone or or restored their youth. His position came with many benefits, obviously, but there are clearly things that Shenron can do that Kami can't.

edited 8th Aug '16 10:21:19 PM by LSBK

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#42659: Aug 8th 2016 at 10:22:07 PM

It's still creating a VERY large mass. Only difference is the comparative size.

LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
DarkHunter from New Mexico Since: Jan, 2001
#42661: Aug 8th 2016 at 11:06:16 PM

Its diameter (~3400 km) compared to Australia's East-West length (~4000 km), anyway.

If we're talking volume the Moon's mass is far more than the continent of Australia.

IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#42662: Aug 8th 2016 at 11:27:02 PM

There is Roshi's immortality and there is also Piccolo's eternal youth. Two.

Me personally, I don't think the dragons could flat out make someone invincible, not Shenron/Shen long or Porunga anyway, because of that creator's strength clause. I think they could do something wacky like free someone from the process of reincarnation, ensuring they would always reform with their body and memories as they know it eventually. That's because few if any characters have "force you into the reincarnation process" powers, "force you to age" powers, etc but several hundred characters have "hit you really hard", "blow you up good", "dice you to pieces", "vaporize/atomize you", "send you somewhere uncomfortable" powers. "Invincibility" is much easier to counter just by raising power levels, due to the nature of the series.

Buldogue's lawyer
Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#42663: Aug 9th 2016 at 6:28:21 AM

The Red Ribbon Army was never shown to be able to take over the world. Even Officer Black rolled his eyes when Red said he didn't need the Dragon Balls to conquer the world. You also forgot that Master Roshi kicked the shit out of an entire Red Ribbon Army unit. They tried to take the world by force, Roshi would've kicked their asses.

And Pilaf only got all the Dragon Balls because Bulma and Goku collected six of them. The Pilag gang is laughable incompetent. Even when they did get all the Dragon Ball, they screwed up and wished themselves to toddlers.

edited 9th Aug '16 6:32:50 AM by Ramona122003

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#42664: Aug 9th 2016 at 8:54:20 AM

[up] Nope. Roshi states that he couldn't have taken the RRA head on like Goku did at the end of the saga. If he had challenged them, he would have tried a different approach.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
Envyus Since: Jun, 2011
#42665: Aug 9th 2016 at 9:48:50 AM

Also lets not forget that the Goverment of the world does have an army. They even used it against Cell.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#42666: Aug 9th 2016 at 9:53:17 AM

Well, then where the hell was this army?

Red Ribboh had been going around attacking places for the Dragonballs. Even if they didn't know about the balls, hearing that this asshole army is going around fucking up shit should have been enough for King Furry to say IT'S ON! and send out his boys to fight.

Didn't know Roshi said he could have taken on the entire army alone as well. I know at that time he was close to Goku considering their fight at the tournament had only happened a little while before this arc, but I'm still wondering if he's being serious.

Now I gotta jog my memory at what Goku and Roshi's power levels would have been at this time. It's ridiculous to think that at this point in the series, both of them could have taken on entire armies. The power creep in Dragon Ball really was ridiculous from the get go.

One Strip! One Strip!
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#42667: Aug 9th 2016 at 10:43:30 AM

Red Ribbon army wasn't all that big. They had presence in few backwater places, but generally didn't draw all that much attention to themselves.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#42668: Aug 9th 2016 at 11:04:15 AM

It was stated a few times that even the government's army couldn't defeat the Red Ribbon Army.

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#42669: Aug 9th 2016 at 11:31:38 AM

[up][up][up]

Except Goku went after the whole of the RR army after having gotten stronger.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#42670: Aug 9th 2016 at 1:33:03 PM

Also, I think it's implied that Goku actually got stronger through his fights up to the Tao fight. Then he almost died and had to get training from Korin.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#42671: Aug 9th 2016 at 4:24:43 PM

Actually, what Roshi said was that he would have the stamina to take out the Red Ribbon Army all at once. Meaning, he would have the run to stream if he raid the base and took everyone on all at once. Also, keep in mind, Goku killed all the top generals before he even got to their base, leaving only the fodder.

Roshi could have just picked up off an unit here and there instead of doing a full on charge if they tried world conquest.

And complaining about power creep because Goku and Roshi could destroy armies is hilarious when Roshi blew up the moon in the second story arc. ''Dragon Ball' always had high levels from the jump.

edited 9th Aug '16 4:30:38 PM by Ramona122003

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#42672: Aug 9th 2016 at 4:30:43 PM

Technically he could have just blown up the moon like Frieza blew up Namek; I mean, the Moon does have a core in it like any other planet does.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#42673: Aug 9th 2016 at 4:53:43 PM

...Heh. I forget how much I've forgotten.

I guess I considered the Moon thing something of a joke (even if it was a plot point).

And yeah, it's true that Goku had already taken out tall the big players barring Red and Black well before he opted to kick their door in and take what they had himself.

One Strip! One Strip!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#42674: Aug 9th 2016 at 5:35:48 PM

Roshi could've just blown up the main base of the Red Ribbon Army with a single Kamehameha.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#42675: Aug 9th 2016 at 5:38:35 PM

This is true. All he'd have needed was knowledge of where it was, an elevated spot, and time to charge up.

How do you guys think Roshi would have fared against Tao Pai Pai pre cyborgization?

One Strip! One Strip!

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