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Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#41276: Jul 1st 2016 at 10:48:29 PM

Yes, that was the one that made Eis Pushover.

And Naturon was made from the wish to revive Majin Vegeta's victims.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#41277: Jul 1st 2016 at 10:50:55 PM

I don't know about GT. Nor do I care.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#41279: Jul 1st 2016 at 10:55:40 PM

I did notice that, yes. It is exceedingly funny.

Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#41280: Jul 1st 2016 at 10:58:24 PM

Missed that. For some reason I read that as Majin Buu instead of Majin Vegeta.

So there are three wishes missing. The wish to revived King Piccolo's victims and all the wishes made in the Cell Saga.

Also, wouldn't the Namekian Dragon Balls exceed seven by now? It was used three times in the Frieza Saga lone, and one more time in the Buu Saga. That's twelves wishes. Where're their Shadow Dragons?

edited 1st Jul '16 11:00:17 PM by Ramona122003

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#41281: Jul 1st 2016 at 11:06:39 PM

Yeah, the wish to revive King Piccolo's victims, the wish to bring back all of Cell's victims, and the wish to remove the bombs from 17 and 18.

Ironically there was a rehash of that Shadow Dragon concept in an AF doujinshi, using those as three of the seven wishes; two of them were then the wish used to revive everyone killed during the Super 17 and original Shadow Dragon Sagas and the wish to revive Goku after he was killed by Omega (the doujinshi had it so Goku actually died against Omega, but Shenron brought him back and allowed the use of one more wish in exchange for Goku to become part of the Dragon Balls and combat the remaining negative energy with his own positive energy until a solution could be found). The other two wishes were the wishes that made the Pilaf Gang children and told Goku and the rest about the Super Saiyan God, since Battle of Gods was in continuity with the story; the reason why the Pilaf Gang are old during GT was actually explained by Pilaf's wording for the wish, as the Japanese could be translated as either "make us young a little" or "make us young for a little bit"; Shenron interpreted it as the latter, and the Pilaf Gang aged back to normal around the time where Trunks and Mai were sitting in a tree together.

edited 1st Jul '16 11:07:34 PM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#41282: Jul 1st 2016 at 11:12:54 PM

Would Shenron reviving Goku really count since no one actually wished him back to life? And since Goku left with the Dragon Ball to petrified them, why did they become corrupted with negative energy from the previous three wishes? Shouldn't the cycle start over again?

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#41283: Jul 1st 2016 at 11:18:54 PM

Well I think it was that what Shenron did technically counted as a wish, it was just one he did for himself; I think it was treated as just using Shenron's power in general that generated the negative energy. And the negative energy from the previous wishes were always there, it was just that only the seven wishes that were used got to be expressed through the original Shadow Dragons; the balls were only purified of the negative energy from the seven wishes that were expressed, but not the five that still remained bottled up within. The last two wishes added even more negative energy into the Dragon Balls, and they only continued to grow during the three to four years between GT and this version of AF while they battled Goku, and even then Goku was starting to lose; using them again would be enough of a catalysis to create a new more powerful pair, though they were already close to breaking free up to that point.

edited 1st Jul '16 11:20:17 PM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#41284: Jul 1st 2016 at 11:34:15 PM

I thought they purified the negative wishes when they killed they Shadow Dragons, specifically Omega Shenron, with the Spirit Bomb which is a giant…ball of positive energy. And why didn't anyone noticed that negative energy was building again or they were negative energy already there that was't used last time for some reason.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#41285: Jul 1st 2016 at 11:39:03 PM

For the same reason why no one noticed any negative energy the first time until Black Smoke Shenron showed up; I just chalk it up to the energy's feeling being suppressed within the Dragon Balls until the negative energy makes itself known.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#41286: Jul 1st 2016 at 11:47:49 PM

I still call BS that Denda, the person who created the Dragon Balls or at least renewed the Kami's dragon, didn't know anything. But also, the Dragon Balls cracked before they summon the smoke the dragon. So, wouldn't the Dragon Balls being crack be a warning sign that there was too much negative energy?

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#41288: Jul 1st 2016 at 11:52:46 PM

Well the Dragon Balls at the time were I think on Kami's Lookout during that time frame; they had no need for them until a few months before the next pair of Shadow Dragons broke free, which would have killed Goku in the process. Using the Dragon Balls before then would still release them, but Goku wouldn't be killed by them, so everything (Gohan, Vegeta, Uub, Trunks, and Goten), ended up training during that time frame to become strong enough to deal with them; they needed to use them anyways so that they could revive Pan, who got killed during the fight with Frieza's OP son Ize.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#41289: Jul 1st 2016 at 11:52:51 PM

[up][up][up]You're assuming they know what negative energy feels like. And why would Dende know about this?

edited 1st Jul '16 11:53:13 PM by LSBK

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#41290: Jul 1st 2016 at 11:54:29 PM

Actually, it was the Elder Kai who ended up informing everyone about what was going on with Goku and the Dragon Balls in this; kind of forgot to mention this.

edited 1st Jul '16 11:54:48 PM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#41291: Jul 2nd 2016 at 12:03:42 AM

It's just feel odd that the creator of the Dragon Balls wouldn't know about the whole negative energy thing. And why couldn't they used the Namekian Dragon Balls to revived Pan or better, yet, why just chalks Pan's death of natural since the whole point of the Shadow Dragons was about them abusing the Dragon Balls too much, which Goku agreed with?

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#41292: Jul 2nd 2016 at 12:10:03 AM

Because a) they had no real way of getting to New Namek since no one besides Goku could teleport there, b) the Namekians had already gathered all the Dragon Balls by the time they were used during the Majin Buu Saga, and there's no guarantee that they had done so as well here, and c) Pan was straight up killed by Ize in pretty much the same way Future Trunks was killed by Cell, so her death could be reversed by the Dragon Balls; it was her death in the first place that let Gohan ascend to Super Saiyan 5, due to both the insane amount of hate he was feeling for Ize and the hate for himself he had for not being able to protect his daughter, so he was feeling partially guilty over her death.

edited 2nd Jul '16 12:10:32 AM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#41293: Jul 2nd 2016 at 12:33:26 AM

So much recycling...

It doesn't take that long to gather the Namekian Dragon Balls since they're held by the elders and not scattered across the planet. And since Goku is there, he can teleport, right? He should be since he can teleport as a Super Saiyan 4. And finally, the whole point of the Shadow Dragons was that they were abusing the Dragon Balls. So, although tragic, Pan should have remained dead since Goku admitted to Shenron before merging with the Dragon Balls that they took the Dragon Balls for granted, and that was why the Shadow Dragons existed.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#41294: Jul 2nd 2016 at 12:37:12 AM

No, Goku was not there; he was literally inside of the Dragon Balls until they used them again to a) summon the new Shadow Dragons, and b) get him out of the damn things before he was killed by the cascade of negative energy once it naturally broke free. The Shadow Dragons would appear one way or another, there was no stopping that; they just had the choice to break them free earlier to save Goku's life.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#41295: Jul 2nd 2016 at 12:43:19 AM

Why would the Shadow Dragons appear one way or another since they were created in the first place by too many wishes?

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#41296: Jul 2nd 2016 at 12:51:31 AM

Because again, they hadn't gotten rid of all the negative energy, only the amount that came out with the first Shadow Dragons. The last two wishes added more to the pot, Goku was taken to combat the negative energy with his positive energy, but the negative energy was slowly growing stronger as time with on, with the eventual outcome of Goku being crushed by the energy and killed; that either led to them breaking free of their own will or permanently corrupting the Dragon Balls, but either way they'd be barred from reviving Pan, and the city that was killed when the current Demon King Marble came around, and they would have lost Goku as well. It was ultimately a necessary evil to use them again, and they ultimately succeeded to killing these ones too, once Goku woke up anyway after the sixth one was killed.

edited 2nd Jul '16 12:52:05 AM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#41297: Jul 2nd 2016 at 1:42:01 AM

From my understanding of GT, the negative energy should dissipate naturally from the Dragon Balls not being used, which usually take 100 years. It shouldn't grow on its own.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#41298: Jul 2nd 2016 at 1:45:02 AM

Might have been a side effect of either too much negative energy to start with, or the fight with Goku's positive energy causing it to slowly grow in an attempt to conquer it.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#41299: Jul 2nd 2016 at 8:06:06 AM

Toriyama really dialed in that Goku sketch, didn't he. Look at his and look at everyone else's. sad

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#41300: Jul 2nd 2016 at 8:09:50 AM

I mean, what do you want? The sketch of Friend and Kenji isn't very into it, either.


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