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MsCC93 Since: May, 2012
#4051: Dec 18th 2013 at 3:17:06 PM

[up][up]I disagree. Toriyama was awful with writing both Bulma & Chi-Chi because I think they were equally bad I hated both of them at first. The only females who were decent were 18 and Videl.

edited 18th Dec '13 3:21:22 PM by MsCC93

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#4052: Dec 18th 2013 at 3:21:43 PM

Bulma was not awfully written, she's deliberately unsympathetic. That's why even side characters, upon meeting her, are appalled by her and say that they'd really dislike her if they had more time with her.

Chi-Chi's only got one moment in the manga I think that's really out of line, and she gets called out on that by Yajirobe. The anime flanderization really was bad for her, but that's irrelevant to Toriyama's writing.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#4053: Dec 18th 2013 at 3:22:39 PM

Which moment is that?

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#4054: Dec 18th 2013 at 3:24:30 PM

That's also why her marrying Vegeta isn't really that much of a shock. Bulma's kind of an awful human being. Not so awful that she crosses the line into villainous; she's still a protagonist. But awful.

I really like her, but I have bad taste in women. She really is a greedy, self-centered bitch. She was a spoiled rich girl when Goku met her, but after years of Character Development, she grew up to be a spoiled rich woman.

edited 18th Dec '13 3:26:09 PM by TobiasDrake

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MsCC93 Since: May, 2012
#4055: Dec 18th 2013 at 3:24:33 PM

[up][up]It was when she ignored Goku and only paid attention Gohan. While she was being bad, I dont think anyone would care if Bulma did it to Yamcha.

edited 18th Dec '13 3:38:25 PM by MsCC93

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#4056: Dec 18th 2013 at 3:26:08 PM

[up][up][up] When she's at the hospital and completely ignores the heavily injured Goku to fuss over Gohan. It's also a little weird, because previously she fussed over Goku's injuries just as much.

[up][up] To be fair to her, though, she grows past that over time, and by the Boo arc she doesn't really have any of that left over.

edited 18th Dec '13 3:27:23 PM by Saiga

MsCC93 Since: May, 2012
#4057: Dec 18th 2013 at 3:31:06 PM

Ironically, Saiga is right. She was pretty annoying when it was always Gohan this and that. Like STFU. I tolerate her in the Cell arc and like her in the Buu arc. She's annoying in the Namek-Frieza Saga.

edited 18th Dec '13 4:01:32 PM by MsCC93

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#4058: Dec 18th 2013 at 3:39:49 PM

Are we seriously saying Toriyama can write women because Bulma was SUPPOSED to be a stupid, insensitive slut?

isn't that kinda like saying the dude who wrote kenshin can write women because all the women in the story were SUPPOSED to be weak and dependent on theri big strong male love interests to protect them?

MsCC93 Since: May, 2012
#4059: Dec 18th 2013 at 3:41:17 PM

[up] I didn't say that. I just feel that Bulma and Chi-Chi got the Grandfather Clause of the deal.

edited 18th Dec '13 3:56:33 PM by MsCC93

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#4060: Dec 18th 2013 at 4:04:26 PM

[up][up] That's not at all the same thing. Toriyama wrote ONE female character as an intentionally awful person, and had her grow beyond that. Or can a writer never have flawed female characters, hmm?

Big difference between that and having all women be useless, though I'm not familiar with Kenshin.

edited 18th Dec '13 4:05:09 PM by Saiga

MsCC93 Since: May, 2012
#4061: Dec 18th 2013 at 4:25:01 PM

Well didn't Toriyama admit he sucked at writing females. He said it himself and whatever he says goes. I just dot get why people only single out Chi-Chi when the other females were acting bitchy/hostile (I admit even Videl annoyed me and she was the first female character I liked).

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#4062: Dec 18th 2013 at 4:26:11 PM

Even in the Buu arc, she was all, "Hey Chi Chi, my Saiyan kid can beat up your Saiyan kid, because for some reason, I have faith that Vegeta's genes produce stronger progeny than Goku's!"

She was right, but still....

edited 18th Dec '13 4:26:27 PM by TobiasDrake

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ScorpioRat from Houston, Texas Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Forming Voltron
#4063: Dec 18th 2013 at 4:26:34 PM

Well, considering the period Kenshin was set in, having tons of female characters not relying on men for some things would have been inaccurate. It's historical fiction of the Meiji period. The women usually weren't fighters directly, but they were still useful to the plot and accomplished things themselves at times.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#4064: Dec 18th 2013 at 4:27:49 PM

[up] This.

When we ignore the prejudices of the past, we forget those prejudices ever existed in the first place. You know what they say about those who forget history.

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SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
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#4065: Dec 18th 2013 at 4:28:55 PM

[up][up]Was Trunks actually stronger than Goten, or did he just win by luck?

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#4066: Dec 18th 2013 at 4:29:36 PM

[up][up][up][up][up] He did say that, but that doesn't make it true. I think he just doesn't give himself enough credit. Dr Slump's females weren't bad either, although I guess since Arale is a robot she might not be counted.

[up][up][up][up] Eh, so? Both mothers were cheering for their sons. That's not so unusual. Yeah, she rubs it in that fat woman's face, but that was JUSTICE.

[up] He was stronger, although he broke the rules they agreed on. But then, so did Goten.


I don't know Kenshin so I can't comment, but I don't think the period it's set in can justify the uselessness of females. In-universe prejudice, yes, but if all are woman is actually useless instead of thought of such by people in-universe than that isn't justified.

edited 18th Dec '13 4:31:41 PM by Saiga

ScorpioRat from Houston, Texas Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Forming Voltron
#4067: Dec 18th 2013 at 4:46:35 PM

Women just usually don't participate in the battles directly unless they actually are trained for it (and because this is the Meiji Period, there are far less women than men that fit that category). I don't find them useless at all, because they participate in other ways too if they aren't fighting (like politics, or info, or medicine or something). Just because they aren't stabbing each other doesn't make them useless characters.

MsCC93 Since: May, 2012
#4068: Dec 18th 2013 at 4:52:50 PM

[up][up] Hmmm I can work with that. I still think that whether or not he wrote females good, I still think their portrayals were pretty bad with before the Buu Saga (where I felt the females were at their best).

Bulma was pretty whiny and pretty selfish ( Dragonball- Frieza Saga) Chi-Chi was too emotional and annoying (Namek - Frieza Saga. She was tolerable in the Cell Arc and was great in the Buu arc) and the others were idiots (Maron and Bulma's mother). Videl mellowed out quickly and I feel Android 18 is the best-developed female.

[up][awesome] Bra-fucking-vo!

edited 18th Dec '13 4:56:04 PM by MsCC93

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#4069: Dec 18th 2013 at 4:54:58 PM

Maron isn't one of Toriyama's characters.tongue Unless you mean Kuririn's child instead of his filler girlfriend, in which case I don't know how she's an idiot.

And you're forgetting Baba! She's a woman too!

MsCC93 Since: May, 2012
#4070: Dec 18th 2013 at 5:02:10 PM

[up] Dude, Maron and The fat lady who Chi-Chi punched are the only females on the show I hate, so I agree with you. As for Baba, I don't care for her she's neutral for me along with Pan.

I like Bulma, Bulma's mother (because despite her being a ditz, at least she's a good mother and grandmother and shes shown to be very rational), Videl, 18, Marron, Lunch, and Chi-Chi.

All I'm saying is that I felt they should have been portrayed a lot better so that this show wouldn't be criticized for being sexist by the fans. I'm on your side here.

edited 18th Dec '13 5:34:11 PM by MsCC93

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
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#4071: Dec 18th 2013 at 6:34:53 PM

I want Future Trunks to return to the main timeline when they do more movies. It's really too bad he got left out of the Buu saga.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#4072: Dec 18th 2013 at 6:36:51 PM

I really disagree with that. It made the most sense for him to return to his own timeline and for that to wrap up his character. If he were to appear in any new specials I would hope that there's actually a reason for it, like he needs their help again for something.

edited 18th Dec '13 6:43:14 PM by Saiga

MSCC93 Since: May, 2012
#4073: Dec 18th 2013 at 8:11:28 PM

It's official. I think Bulma is overrated.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#4074: Dec 18th 2013 at 8:23:45 PM

[up]

Bulma is just Bulma. The dumbest genius who ever lived.

[up][up]

Considering he creates alternate timelines every time he shows up, only arriving when he really needs help makes a lot of sense….

which means that Bojack is probably Trunks' fault.

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MsCC93 Since: May, 2012
#4075: Dec 18th 2013 at 8:47:50 PM

[up] No offense, but how can somebody be dumb and a genius at the same time??

I honestly dislike this fandom sometimes, because of how hypocritical they can be.


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