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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#39776: Jun 5th 2016 at 3:16:34 AM

Well, Super Saiyan 1 is still a 50x multiplier, and Super Saiyan Blue must logically be much stronger than Super Saiyan 3, and Golden Freeza's increase should be a bit stronger than Super Saiyan Blue.

edited 5th Jun '16 3:17:14 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#39777: Jun 5th 2016 at 3:44:30 AM

[up][up] No, he wore four weights that were two tonnes each. That's eight total.

Combining it with bukujutsu makes it more effective, as training, but that doesn't necessarily mean he can lift more on the ground. Also, that doesn't really matter because I was only talking about his minimum weight limit.

We know where he was: heaven. And you're misunderstanding how gravity works. Even ff he was in increased gravity, the weight given would be relative to that gravity (or the conversation between the two Kaios makes no sense). So when Kaio says they weigh two tonnes, that's what they weigh in that gravity.

Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#39778: Jun 5th 2016 at 4:28:33 AM

I will say that Super Saiyan Vegeta enhanced by god energy should be able to lift 1000 tons. You can blow the universe, but can lift that much is just weird. At least with Goku, you can hand wave him training and not using ki to enhance his strength.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#39779: Jun 5th 2016 at 4:51:53 AM

Eh, the weights have always been weirdly understated.

And we don't know if manga Vegeta even has the God power outside of Super Saiyan Blue, as I was saying before.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#39780: Jun 5th 2016 at 5:16:39 AM

How about this compromise: while a case can be made for Goku and Vegeta not having absorbed godly Ki in their base forms in the manga for Dragon Ball Super, they clearly have absorbed Godly Ki in their base forms in the anime of Dragon Ball Super. Basically, Goku and Vegeta in the Anime are much stronger than Goku and Vegeta in the Manga, aside from Super Saiyan Blue.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#39781: Jun 5th 2016 at 5:42:11 AM

Can we all agree that the characters having little lifting strength is ridiculous, though?

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#39782: Jun 5th 2016 at 6:10:14 AM

.....

Power Levels......

.....Yeah. I don't care who's right or wrong. FUCK THIS SHIT!

Call me when we're discussing something that matters.

~Drops the mike~

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#39783: Jun 5th 2016 at 6:16:02 AM

Bye, see you later.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#39784: Jun 5th 2016 at 6:17:07 AM

[up][up][up]It'll still look like they're struggle-ing when lifting things outside the width of arm reach.

edited 5th Jun '16 6:17:18 AM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#39785: Jun 5th 2016 at 6:22:43 AM

SOMEONE NEEDS TO CHANGE THEIR AVATAR TO VEGETA WITH A PACIFIER OR I WILL.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#39786: Jun 5th 2016 at 6:34:29 AM

But you're the Yamucha guy, and only just got that avvie.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#39787: Jun 5th 2016 at 6:46:50 AM

Which is why I want someone else to do it, so I don't have to. It's too perfect not to be used.

Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#39788: Jun 5th 2016 at 8:13:20 AM

So is Future Trunks being retconed to have blue hair to distinguish between himself and the Kid Trunks?

IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#39789: Jun 5th 2016 at 8:14:42 AM

Uub had infinite potential as a character. Saiga is right about the village thing being done with Nam before, but there are key differences in Uub's case. One, Uub was much less reluctant to continue with martial arts than Nam, Uub gain a sponsor in Mr. Satan, Goku went to live in Uub's village for the sake of training him.

Gohan develops home schooled in a secluded rural area. Uub is a child of a community, there are lots of other characters to get introduced to, for Goku to meet, for Satan to meet. Lots of opportunity for flashback. Lots of opportunity for development, not just for Uub, or any other characters living with him but we'll get to see the poor area develop with Satan's money.

Pan is more interesting for the insight she can bring into Gohan and Videl's characters. She's a free range child, something her father was decidedly not and has expressed interest in the martial arts from a very young age. I imagined her having a similar competitive streak to her mother's and was curious as to whether Videl would encourage it or find Pan hard to deal with. Maybe both as she got older? I imagined Gohan and Pan still doing the Great Saiyaman thing and getting angry when Pan put together her own poorly done costume, or perhaps went to Bulma/Bra, maybe one after the other, and went on to fight super villains without her parents knowing.

And it's not thinking the fat Buu is a different character. He clearly enjoyed fighting Goku and wanted to do it again. Moreover, he was stronger than Vegeta. Vegeta wasn't just behind Goku, he had sold his soul for power and still drastically behind. He had to face the facts that there were no excuses, it wasn't Goku's friends and family, it wasn't a natural gift, it wasn't losing his edge because of the Earth, he was simply the inferior, both in skill and in strength. Now we have the main rival admitting, if only to himself, that he is bested, and we have a new, stronger character who has given up his murderous ways but has shown enjoyment of fighting and expressed interest in fighting Goku again. We have Dragon Ball Online, which demonstrates Majins can train to become stronger. We have Goten and Trunks, grown up, the former shown to have retained some interest in martial arts and training, and is still reluctant to fight the Fat Buu, indicating he's still considered one of the stronger guys on Earth. Exactly why was I mistaken in thinking Fat Buu would be bumping off Vegeta the way Vegeta bumped off Piccolo, the way Piccolo bumped off Tien, bumped off Krillen, bumped off Yamucha? Yeah, hindsight says that didn't happen but I don't see why I had to be stretching or misinterpreting Buu's character to expect, and want such a thing?

And again, Goku training Uub and the Fat Buu trying to keep up with Goku lends itself to a lot of interesting situations. GT screwed this all up by skipping a decade and showing that Uub was vastly inferior to Goku. Pan had developed into a brat who was a bigger letdown than Gohan ever was. Gohan at least had two peaks where he was a badass. Even the Revival Of F Gohan everyone complains about had that "I'm still far above the rest of you" moment that had the villains trembling. GT wasted infinite potential.

Buldogue's lawyer
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#39790: Jun 5th 2016 at 8:45:19 AM

So I watched it.

Vegeta not knowing who to cheer for, despite being expected was still hilarious. Even his copy was baffled. In other words, Vegeta's pride is so staggering that even Vegeta is confused by it.

This episode only further cements my new hatred for Power Levels. My theory that Copy-Vegeta had all of Vegeta's power right off the bat without needing to transform went out the window when he went Super Saiyan Blue. How the fuck can he be stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks in fucking Base. Seriously, fuck power levels. I don't know who wrote this arc (Toriyama or Toei) but since this was just an excuse to have Goku fight (a) Vegeta again (and end it inconclusively again), I am slightly annoyed. Seeing Gotenks try and overcome Copy Vegeta in time would have worked better, especially with the smash the core idea.

As for the next arc....Mai presence (and her seeming youth) is baffling. I hoping they explain it, but I have my doubts to be honest.

One Strip! One Strip!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#39791: Jun 5th 2016 at 9:00:17 AM

Hey. I just thought.

Maybe it's not Mai. Maybe it's Mai's kid.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#39792: Jun 5th 2016 at 9:19:58 AM

...

That could work.

Bra and Goten show that children in this series can look like their parents.

One Strip! One Strip!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#39793: Jun 5th 2016 at 9:21:46 AM

[up][up][up][up] Eh, do we actually know anything about Uub's village to justify focusing on it? We don't even go see it in GT iirc and that's when Goku already outclassed his successor to begin with. In any case, the focus Uub got was mostly on him being Goku's new training partner; focusing on his village and developing that community kinda takes the focus off of that.

Buu seemed to have kinda lost interest in fighting Goku after he lived with Satan as he was mostly concerned with eating, he didn't even enter the tournament with a purpose to fight Goku iirc. Like Saiga said, you'd have to change his character a bit for him to fit into the role you want him to be.

edited 5th Jun '16 9:22:13 AM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#39794: Jun 5th 2016 at 10:45:42 AM

Saw the episode. Was a little surprised and disappointed with the total lack of consequences, but it looks like the next episode is going to introduce more of an arc and it isn't like Dragon Ball itself didn't do lots of fun miniarcs before introducing bigger stuff.

Seconding that Vegeta (regular Vegeta, anyway) totally made this episode. Though I hope "Goku and Vegeta do everything, and then Monaka does something funny" isn't going to be the template for every serious threat going forward.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#39795: Jun 5th 2016 at 10:48:50 AM

It was pretty clear this was a filler arc to bridge the end of the Universe 6 tournament and the Future Trunks arc, so I don't mind.

Fun fact, this is the first time we've seen Super Saiyan Blue with Goku and Vegeta's old outfits rather than their ROF ones.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#39796: Jun 5th 2016 at 11:02:48 AM

I don't really like the Revival of F outfits.

Incidentally, Saiga, you aware we've got a Grand Order thread now? 'cuz we do.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#39797: Jun 5th 2016 at 11:27:54 AM

Saiga, here's the thing, the 40 tons thing cannot be used because of the Bukujutsu thing; when someone is on the ground lifting something, they're also pushing off the ground with their legs to help counteract the force pushing them down, it's why "lift with your legs" is a thing. However, when you're flying in the air, there's no ground you can push against, so you're stuck having to completely relying on your arms (and your back, which is dangerous) to lift anything. Goku could easily be capable of lifting more weight on the ground since he'd be pushing against this; though this would really only apply to arm weights, it would still make the overall weight he could lift with his whole body greater on the ground.

Also, for the last time people, there is a clear difference between lifting and striking strength; one is just the weight you can bench press, the other is defined by a physics equation and involves mass and acceleration; one is a pushing force, and the other is a snapping force; one is what bodybuilders use, the other is what tennis players use; hell, if the strength was actually the same, then you'd expect professional tennis players to have the bodies of bodybuilders and to lift massive weights to get better at spiking serves, but you rarely if ever see a tennis player built like that. It applies to Dragon Ball as well; Goku could struggle to lift 1000 tons as a Super Saiyan, but he'd still be able to destroy a mountain in a single punch. Hell, the Super Exciting Guide also mentioned that there are physical limits on a person's body, and that Ki is needed to go beyond those limits.

edited 5th Jun '16 11:29:17 AM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#39798: Jun 5th 2016 at 11:34:26 AM

I wonder why Future Trunks never tried looking for the Namekian Dragon Balls after he destroyed the androids and his Cell.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#39799: Jun 5th 2016 at 11:36:34 AM

Because no one knew where New Namek was in the main timeline until Goku got King Kai to help him find it.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#39800: Jun 5th 2016 at 11:40:32 AM

Assuming kilos means kilograms, that would be a measure of mass, not weight.


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