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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#3901: Dec 1st 2013 at 11:10:13 AM

I think the reason he never tried to summon a Spirit Bomb as a Super Saiyan is just that he didn't. The Spirit Bomb is kind of a desperation thing, and isn't actually as overused as the fandom likes to say it is; the idea of him constantly using the Spirit Bomb comes from the movies more than anything else - and even then, not much.

Goku only uses the Spirit Bomb three times in the series. Once against Vegeta, once against Frieza - both of these prior to his becoming a Super Saiyan - and then the final one against Kid Buu, which is the only time the Spirit Bomb actually succeeded in killing the villain. I may be misremembering, but I thought that by the time he used the Kid Buu Spirit Bomb, he'd been beaten down by Buu and burned out all his energy with Super Saiyan 3, and no longer had the capability of transforming because of how weakened he was; even after throwing it, a wish had to be made to Shenron to restore Goku's power so that he could transform and drive the Spirit Bomb home.

So it isn't so much a matter of him not being able to use it while transformed, it's simply that he didn't because of its status as a desperation attack that is both very hard and very time-consuming to use. The Spirit Bomb sees little play because, as the Abridged team mocked on the first use of Special Beam Cannon, a five-minute startup time for an attack is pretty abysmal as far as combat usefulness goes.

I agree that the others should have gotten the Kaioken, or at least something out of their training with King Kai. All they got was a higher power level that never became relevant because, for the most part, they all became a peanut gallery after Namek, showing up to battles to gawk and comment on how amazing the Saiyans and the villain are. They didn't get anything of substance to demonstrate the fruits of their effort with King Kai.

edited 1st Dec '13 11:12:15 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#3902: Dec 2nd 2013 at 3:16:11 AM

To be fair, the Kaio-ken is pretty much a higher power level with a pretty aura. It wouldn't have changed their role with it being inferior to Super Saiyan.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#3903: Dec 2nd 2013 at 6:06:55 AM

[up]

Probably not, but if used properly, I bet they might have been able to get good mileage out of it.

You yourself pointed out how Cell kept alive despite being weaker than Piccolo by using every advantage he had.

That's one of the problems with the later series: It's stopped being about technique, and became more about who has the higher power, making everything else irrelevant to some extent.

Or at least that's how I felt. I may be oversimplifying it.

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MikeBreezy92 Storm King Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Noddin' my head like yeah
Storm King
#3904: Dec 2nd 2013 at 6:07:45 AM

You are oversimplifying it but you are right.

youtube.com/Fire Trainer 92
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#3905: Dec 2nd 2013 at 6:28:55 AM

I still don't see how Kaio-ken makes any difference to it being about who has the higher power. The only thing it does is raise power level.

And Cell did well because he was smart and did what he could with what he had. The Kaio-ken won't stop the humans from having low power levels and since all it does is affect power level, it won't affect their standing.

And no, you're wrong about it stopping being about technique and being about the higher power. It was always, from chapter one, about who had the higher power. The techniques were just there to look good while Toriyama showed us who had the higher power in whatever current fight was going on.

edited 2nd Dec '13 6:32:46 AM by Saiga

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#3906: Dec 2nd 2013 at 11:43:49 AM

Though in all fairness, that didn't stop Buu from lasting as long as he did despite being weaker than SSJ 3 Goku as Fat Buu, weaker than Gohan as Super Buu, and weaker than Vegito as Super Buu post-absorptions.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#3907: Dec 2nd 2013 at 1:39:46 PM

[up]

What saved Buu in all of those examples was that the ones fighting him didn't finish the battle when they had the chance for one reason or another.

edited 2nd Dec '13 1:41:12 PM by HandsomeRob

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Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#3908: Dec 2nd 2013 at 2:59:39 PM

Indeed, but he also survived as long as he did thanks to his regeneration. Considering how often he gets splattered to pieces, even excusing the fact that he can let his guard down somewhat thanks to it, it is a case of a fighter's inherent abilities giving them an edge unrelated to power level.

edited 2nd Dec '13 2:59:53 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#3909: Dec 2nd 2013 at 3:51:59 PM
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#3910: Dec 2nd 2013 at 6:38:11 PM

The Kaioken wouldn't change their role at all, but that's not the point. It would basically be a cosmetic thing; an empty trophy to wrap their higher power level in. "I Trained Under King Kai And All I Got For It Was This Shiny Red Aura."

It wouldn't change there role, but it would be some kind of payoff for them to come away with all that training with. An empty trophy is better than nothing; as it stands, training under King Kai is a complete waste of their time, because immediately after getting back from that, they go into Pre-Android training and raise their power level some more, so nothing that happened with King Kai couldn't just be attributed to that.

As it stands, there is no narrative purpose to them having trained under King Kai. They gained absolutely nothing from it. In fact, the closest thing to a benefit that their King Kai training has was allowing Piccolo to communicate with Gohan on Namek, to set up the plan that restores Earth's Dragon Balls and brings him to Namek. Piccolo is the only one that didn't walk away empty-handed, and he didn't even train with them.

tl;dr: The main benefit of giving them the Kaioken is not to change up the action that came after, but to justify this plot point even existing in the first place.

edited 2nd Dec '13 6:46:51 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#3911: Dec 2nd 2013 at 7:07:34 PM

Oh, well in that case sure. But I don't see it as needing justification as training is something they simply enjoy doing, so training at Kaio's for the sake of training at Kaio's is enough for them.

It's like going to the beach, except with less tanning.

edited 2nd Dec '13 7:08:12 PM by Saiga

sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#3912: Dec 3rd 2013 at 8:02:20 PM

So someone added the following to Dragon Ball's awesome moments page:

Even well into Z, Yamcha shows off his badassery; he sneaks into the gravity chamber, setting it to 300X, same as Vegeta. And guess what? He survives a few moments under the same same, hyper-intense that Vegeta had to work up to. "Whatever Vegeta can take, I can take too", Yamcha? You're damn right! Still, his error was in not working up to it, like Vegeta, but that's not the point. The point is; beneath all the boasting and posturing, the token human, often derided for, is no less badass than the prince of all saiyans.

I think it's quite telling that Yamcha's crowning moment is not immediately dying in a few seconds [lol]

edited 3rd Dec '13 8:02:26 PM by sockpuppet1

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#3913: Dec 3rd 2013 at 9:24:57 PM

I really hope that's not sincere. I couldn't even laugh at that - it's just sad.

Pls be troll. Pls.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#3914: Dec 3rd 2013 at 9:53:45 PM

Yeah, I still think the saddest Yamcha-related fact is that his final boss fight in Raging Blast 2 is a single lone Saibaman. Even the game designers have no respect for Yamcha.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#3915: Dec 3rd 2013 at 9:54:27 PM

Meh. Not much to say about this. I've learned the futility of trying to defend Yamcha.

I'm shocked anyone would even try. Even when if it is sincere, as [up][up][up] pointed out, it still makes him look like a loser.

Guy can't win. The fans won't let him.

[up]

Wow. That is sad. Then again, he is what Toriyama made him, so we shouldn't be surprised.

edited 3rd Dec '13 9:56:09 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#3916: Dec 3rd 2013 at 10:17:57 PM

That's honestly like equating one guy easily beating up an entire gang at the same time to another guy cockily challenging that same gang to a fight, then getting stomped so bad that every bone in his body breaks after mere seconds of the beating. But hey, guy two didn't die, so they're equally badass! Kind of reminds of the Lonely Island's Rocky for whatever reason.

On the subject of Yamcha, I also think I should note that two of his other "awesome moments" on that same page are his fight with Tenshinhan, where Ten effortlessly kicked his ass, and him volunteering to fight the Saibamen in Krillin's place, where he went in overconfident, declared that he could take all six of them, and showed that he couldn't even take one, becoming the only main fighter to ever get offed by a mook. And two of the others are from Filler.

edited 3rd Dec '13 10:21:18 PM by sockpuppet1

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#3917: Dec 3rd 2013 at 10:17:58 PM

Guy can't win. The fans won't let him.

If you're referring to the above, bullshit. That scene does not say anything positive about him and trying to twist it so it does just makes him look worse.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#3918: Dec 3rd 2013 at 10:24:12 PM

In a wrestling context: Goku and Vegeta are Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage. They're all over the place, and positioned as the most important. Gohan, Goten, and Trunks are Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, and The Undertaker. They've got potential, and they'll get there someday. Once the old men are gone. Piccolo is Ricky Steamboat. He's all right. He's there. Tien and Krillin are Strike Force. Similar to Piccolo, they're there, but of even less consequence. Yamcha is some ham and egger that's lucky to be on WWF Prime Time. He is literally no one.

My various fanfics.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#3919: Dec 3rd 2013 at 10:37:22 PM

[up]In a wrestling context, the only thing Recoome Sells is MERCHANDISE!

edited 3rd Dec '13 10:37:41 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#3920: Dec 3rd 2013 at 10:44:29 PM

[up][up]Nonono, in a wrestling analogy, Yamcha is one of the turnbuckles. Stands there and gets slammed against and roughed up, and nobody really cares. He isn't one of the wrestlers.

edited 3rd Dec '13 10:46:30 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#3921: Dec 3rd 2013 at 11:25:25 PM

[up][up][up]Okay, I'm a wrestling fan and I have zero clue what the fuck Strike Force is. Get out of the late-80s early-90s!

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#3922: Dec 3rd 2013 at 11:29:08 PM

Strike Force was Tito Santana and Rick Martel. I was going for an older, safer bet that I thought more people would get...>_>

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#3923: Dec 4th 2013 at 6:05:56 AM

[up]

Oh yeah.

I totally forgot about those two.

One Strip! One Strip!
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#3924: Dec 4th 2013 at 9:31:06 AM

I just figured most of the modern wrestlers I knew would go over people's heads.

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#3925: Dec 4th 2013 at 3:15:44 PM

[up]

I don't think I even saw them wrestle back in the day: I only remember their break up and Rick Martel becoming….

The Model! Rick Martel!

Dun dun duuuuun!

……

Um….. about that Dragon Ball……

Ooh! I got it! Name me all the characters with techniques that they didn't learn from someone else by the time of the 23 World Martial Arts tournament.

One Strip! One Strip!

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