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Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#3851: Nov 22nd 2013 at 11:06:09 AM

Favorite fight? Goku vs Vegeta in the Saiyan and Buu Arcs. The only canon fight from Z I outright hate is Goku vs 19.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#3852: Nov 22nd 2013 at 3:19:33 PM

Why didn't you like Goku vs 19?

MsCC93 Since: May, 2012
#3853: Nov 22nd 2013 at 7:42:28 PM

Nobody likes the fight because it ended with Goku getting a heart virus.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#3854: Nov 22nd 2013 at 8:18:12 PM

Philistines. Best/Jackie Chun and Goku/Tien were great. And of course Goku/King Piccolo is what led to all the other major fights in the series. Amazing build up and atmosphere.

But yeah....Gohan vs. Cell was good. You also gotta love Vegeta vs. 18. It was the first real display of the Androids' power and it was so awesome to watch Vegeta's ego get destroyed.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#3855: Nov 22nd 2013 at 8:18:16 PM

I have no idea why that's a reason to dislike it.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#3856: Nov 22nd 2013 at 9:09:43 PM

Its not a very good reason.

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Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#3857: Nov 22nd 2013 at 9:27:53 PM

I have absolutely no idea what you both are talking about.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#3858: Nov 22nd 2013 at 10:43:55 PM

Disliking the Goku vs 19 fight because Goku had a heart virus.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#3859: Nov 22nd 2013 at 10:55:05 PM

Oh. My bad then. Thought you were replying to my post.

FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#3860: Nov 23rd 2013 at 7:31:50 AM

I really liked the fight with Super Buu, the one that used that creepy carnival music. Always gave me chills.

-

wild mass guess: If it hasn't already been speculated, Vegeta may be descended from the original Super Saiyan God, judging from the physical resemblance.

CaptainKatsura Decoy from    Poland    Since: Jul, 2011
Decoy
#3861: Nov 23rd 2013 at 10:58:05 AM

Dragonball wikia is shitty, don't quote it here.

My President is Funny Valentine.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#3862: Nov 23rd 2013 at 2:53:23 PM

Yeah, there's no way of knowing if that's actually the original Super Saiyan God, one of the silhouettes that appears in that ritual is Vegeta in his Cell/BoG armour, and that one appears to be wearing Vegeta's Boo outfit. As the screenwriter is a massive Vegeta fanboy, it could just be something he put in. It's just weird.

FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#3863: Nov 24th 2013 at 8:20:22 AM

I was actually just looking at the picture and noticed the hairstyle. They don't have a trivia section for it.

[up]A Vegeta fan boy? Now this I've got to hear. This about the scene with Vegeta clocking Bills? Ha, that scene was great.

And on another note: an open question to all.

If you could change one thing (and I say that loosely) about the Dragonball storyline, what would you change?

Up to me, I would have made it so that Goku and Vegeta didn't attain Super Saiyan 2 off-screen; rather, Goku would be seen learning to alter his Super Saiyan form in Otherworld, creating, but not actually naming, "Super Saiyan 3". Vegeta, meanwhile, would be a tough-as-shit Ascended/Full Power Super Saiyan. SSJ 2 would remain as Gohan's distinct trait.

Kind of awkward to 'nerf' Vegeta due to the above comment, but I've always felt like his stature as a SSJ was his most important development, and the revelation that Goten and Trunks were SSJ's became an even deeper blow because of that. When Vegeta busted out SSJ 2-like electricity in his Majin form, and later when he fought Kid Buu I was like, "Awwh, when did that happen? That's Gohan's shtick!" Same with Goku, but Goku at least had something new to put on the table (SSJ 3). Besides, it's not really nerfing, I love moments where Vegeta pulls off incredible feats, like when Kid Buu shot him point-blank, or when he No-Sold Bills's punch. I'd focus on Vegeta subverting Can't Catch Up with pure determination.

So, that.

edited 24th Nov '13 8:41:36 AM by FOFD

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#3864: Nov 24th 2013 at 8:37:38 AM

Vegeta is the Kuwabara of Dragon Ball Z. You can beat him, blast him, impale him, a thousand times over and he gets right back up for more. It is incredibly f*cking hard to kill Vegeta. This was evident in both Goku, Krillin, and Gohan's battle with Vegeta, and also in Frieza's. It was evident in his throwdown with Kid Buu to stall for time. I can't remember if it came up in the Cell Saga - my memory of that arc is foggy at best - but the point is, Vegeta's strongest trait is his endurance. He refuses to die or even to stop getting back up for more punishment.

edited 24th Nov '13 8:37:52 AM by TobiasDrake

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#3865: Nov 24th 2013 at 9:28:02 AM

Freeza shot him in the heart, and he still kept talking for a few minutes, so I'd agree that Vegeta is not so easy to kill.

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CaptainKatsura Decoy from    Poland    Since: Jul, 2011
Decoy
#3866: Nov 24th 2013 at 9:42:27 AM

He basically replaced Yamcha as the jobber of the series because he can take any beating. He inherited a girlfriend from his precedessor.

My President is Funny Valentine.
sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#3867: Nov 24th 2013 at 3:02:16 PM

I would change the Buu Saga so that there is no final Genki Dama. Instead, after Gotenks defuses inside Buu, Dende doesn't heal Gohan in time. Goku comes in to fuse with Gohan, like normal, but Buutenks catches and crushes the earring before regressing into Buuccolo. Seeing no other choice, Goku opts to distract Buuccolo to give Dende time to get to and heal Gohan. A short fight ensues and Goku is easily and brutally beaten down and absorbed. But his distraction made it so that Dende had enough time to heal Gohan. Final battle in the series is Buuku vs Gohan.

Or, if I absolutely HAVE to keep the ending to the Buu Saga, I'd get rid of the Potara and instead have Goku and Vegeta form Gogeta to fight Buuhan. Gogeta goes Super Saiyan 3 and has a long epic fight with the mightiest Majin, which he eventually loses. Buuhan compliments him and goes to absorb him too. However, Gogeta has a plan B and uses the same energy shield that Vegetto did to avoid absorption. Then things go more or less how they did.

edited 24th Nov '13 3:03:22 PM by sockpuppet1

Sailor11sedna Since: Aug, 2011
#3868: Nov 24th 2013 at 9:40:36 PM

It might have been nice if Vegeta was able to stay on Namek while Goku fought Freeza. Then maybe both of them could have been heroes of that arc. It seems more karmic to me because of what Freeza did to Vegeta's father.

Also, at least give Gohan one more fight with Buu after all that time spent getting his power unlocked. Frankly, I thought Guru was supposed to unlock his power, but clearly... no.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#3869: Nov 24th 2013 at 11:17:55 PM

It seems more karmic to me because of what Freeza did to Vegeta's father entire race, family, and heritage, and then went on to do to Vegeta's entire life.

FTFY.

Also, at least give Gohan one more fight with Buu after all that time spent getting his power unlocked. Frankly, I thought Guru was supposed to unlock his power, but clearly... no.

My understanding: on Namek, Guru raised Gohan's power to his maximum potential. His power waned in the seven years between Cell and Buu due to a lack of training. Then Old Kai raised Gohan's power level to a point that greatly exceeds Gohan's physical limits.

So basically, Namek Gohan = 100% Gohan Power. Post Timeskip Gohan = 50% Gohan Power. Mystic Gohan = 200% Gohan Power.

I pulled those percentages out of my ass, I don't know the exact power levels, but you get the idea.

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RedM Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
#3870: Nov 24th 2013 at 11:28:16 PM

I would've... probably given Piccolo more to do. That, or just made it so the final fight against Buu was more of a team effort, and less of a "Hey, Vegeta, our kids dropped the ball, wanna go save the world?" "I guess." sort of deal.

The very best, like no one ever was. Check out my Spider-Man fanfic here! [1]
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#3871: Nov 25th 2013 at 12:04:01 AM

I would have kept Gohan as the main character and have him be the one to kill Buu, and if the Kid Buu thing had to happen, then have Gohan survive to help Goku and Vegeta beat him down and destroy him. If the Spirit Bomb thing also had to happen, then have Goku teach it to him through telepathy and completely pass the torch down to him.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
RedM Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
#3872: Nov 25th 2013 at 12:18:05 AM

[up]You'd think he would've done that when they were training in the three years before the Androids. Heck, he could've taught Instant Transmission, Spirit Bomb, and Kaioken to Gohan, Piccolo, Krillin, Tien, and definitely not Yamcha.

The very best, like no one ever was. Check out my Spider-Man fanfic here! [1]
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#3873: Nov 25th 2013 at 12:37:56 AM

[up][up][up][up] Namek Gohan isn't anywhere near any version of Gohan who comes afterward, even ignoring the Super Saiyan forms.

This is partially a translation issue, the word that the English dub translates as "potential" is literally translated as "dormant power", which is power you have yet to realize. Goku had his dormant power drawn out by the Super God Water back in the Piccolo Daimao arc, and yet he got far stronger than then. Dormant power is not a hard limit to how strong you can become, it's at best a temporary limit. Guru unlocked Gohan's dormant powers, but by the Boo arc he's got a whole lot more in him which Old Kaioshin draws out. It's also possible that Guru didn't even draw out everything Gohan had at that point in the Namek arc, he never said anything to that effect.

[up] To be fair, all three of those techniques are supposed to be really hard to learn, and Kaio wasn't even able to properly use the Kaio-ken himself.

If I could only make one change for the series, it'd be for Gohan to beat Boo. I think the Boo arc really goes downhill once Potara is introduced, so I'd have Gohan defeat Gotenks-Boo somehow. Although I like sockpuppet's idea as well.


And yeah, the screenwriter for Battle of Gods, Yusuke Watanabe, is a self-admitted big Vegeta fanboy. He calls him "Dragon Ball's unofficial star" and is the one who made Vegeta do so well against Beers.

edited 25th Nov '13 1:19:00 AM by Saiga

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#3874: Nov 25th 2013 at 1:39:10 PM

19 wasn't interesting in the slightest to me. And his performance was just pathetic. Substandard model, Gero.

Roshi would kill for this man's secret.

If I could change anything in Dragonball I wouldn't. I'd probably turn it into the Vegeta show.

edited 25th Nov '13 1:45:44 PM by Cruherrx

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#3875: Nov 25th 2013 at 2:28:20 PM

I recall a rumor that 19 and 20 were originally supposed to be the androids that Trunks was talking about, but a poor audience reception caused 17 and 18 to be introduced and the existence of 19 and 20 to be retconned into time travel wonkiness. I don't know how true that is, though, as there are a lot of rumors about what Dragon Ball was "supposed" to be.

If I could change anything about Dragon Ball, I would leave most of it exactly the same, but equalize the powers more and never introduce the "Power Levels" concept. Any change I would make would be more cosmetic than anything else, by simply getting rid of things like, "Everybody's moving so fast I can barely see them! There's so much power there!"

Equalizing the powers so that someone like Krillin would be able to fight someone like Kid Buu. He would get his ass horribly kicked, but there would still be more of a fight than "Gohan kills Frieza in one punch". Krillin can't win because Buu is a regenerating berserker who fights with an untold ferocity, instead of because Buu is so powerful that he can kill Krillin by blinking. This should come as no surprise to anyone who's heard me complain about the power discrepancies.

edited 25th Nov '13 2:30:26 PM by TobiasDrake

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