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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#37951: Apr 21st 2016 at 3:42:28 AM

yeh

although I'm not sure why you'd count Beerus and Whis as what should be stronger than apes, because they don't have magical powers that would make them stronger. They're stronger for the same reason anyone else is, ki is basically a magical power in itself.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#37952: Apr 21st 2016 at 3:49:52 AM

I did it because they're immortal.

Whis is something else with his abilities and I had just assumed Beers was too.

Though Beerus doesn't seem to have anything special, it really was just the immortal.

edited 21st Apr '16 3:51:42 AM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#37953: Apr 21st 2016 at 3:51:19 AM

Well yeah but going by conventional logic you'd think even immortal beings are weaker than the huge-ass giants.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#37954: Apr 21st 2016 at 4:21:38 AM

I would leave Super Sayian 1 as it is' at 50x. Super Sayain 2 always seemed a too small of a boost for a whole level, I would have it at 10x Super Sayain 1 so 500x base. And Super Sayain 3 would be 5x this with 2500x base.

On somewhat related note, I'd get rid of the "base Sayain never surpassed Freeza" thing, since I find cramming the power levels of the next two sagas with that limit to be very restricting.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#37955: Apr 21st 2016 at 4:22:22 AM

I don't find it restricting as is but with those buffed multipliers I'm really unsure how you'd have trouble.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#37956: Apr 21st 2016 at 4:24:37 AM

The whole "base never surpassed Freeza" gives us a ceiling, which makes it actually easier to guess at their powerlevel.

We know that Goku is absolutely somewhere in between 3,000,000 and 119,999,999.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#37957: Apr 21st 2016 at 4:30:59 AM

[up][up]Oh no, the second point was not directly compounded with the first. I don't actually use the buffed multipliers when discussing power levels.

[up]It's just that the ceiling means that in order to fit in, power level differences that looked enormous on show, has to be represented by numbers that are not very far apart.

Also, it means that post Freeza saga the power level increase actually slowed down to a crawl compared to how it was earlier, and no one seems to acknowledge that.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#37958: Apr 21st 2016 at 4:41:05 AM

They're still pretty big, I think they work. Like Goku can get anywhere less than 40x stronger and that is a pretty huge amount. The gaps in larger series can still be pretty big proportionally, they're just not getting like 30x stronger in one go anymore.

I think the issue is more than the Freeza arc's gains were meaninglessly huge. Freeza didn't need to be literally a thousand times stronger than Ginyu, it doesn't serve much purpose.

edited 21st Apr '16 4:42:01 AM by Saiga

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#37959: Apr 21st 2016 at 5:21:27 AM

Thoughts on Super 25:

  • The posturing at the beginning of the episode takes for f*cking ever. Vegeta is as bored with it as the audience.
  • Tien and Kame-sennin talk about how monstrous Frieza's new form is and I just have to laugh. Especially at Tien. "He became terribly strong!" Bite me, Tien. You never even caught up to his first form on Namek. To you, he's always been terribly strong. His battle power at this juncture might as well be "the square root of infinity" for as much as you can grasp it.
  • Gohan tells everyone to take cover as the fight begins, then they proceed to hide behind a rock. I'm sorry, Gohan, but I'm beginning to question whether you've even watched this show let alone participated in it. Characters have been vaporizing mountains since, like, Namek. Goku and Beerus nearly obliterated the universe. The hell is your rock supposed to do?
  • There is a hilarious effects failure in the fight where we cut back to Goku and Frieza but Toei used still frames and just moved them, so Goku ascends into the sky while Frieza chases him with punch extended. I can practically hear Frieza crying, "Get back here and take my punch!"
  • It's been time, Frieza. It's been time for the last twenty minutes. This glacial pace kills me.

To summarize the events of the episode: Goku and Frieza punched each other. Beerus and Whis arrived. Champa and Vados had a glorified cameo that didn't go anywhere.

edited 21st Apr '16 5:24:50 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#37960: Apr 21st 2016 at 6:17:16 AM

It's been time, Frieza◊. It's been time for the last twenty minutes. This glacial pace

When you put it that way.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#37961: Apr 21st 2016 at 6:22:27 AM

Like Frieza knows what a minute is.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#37962: Apr 21st 2016 at 6:30:21 AM

To be fair, neither does Goku.

edited 21st Apr '16 6:32:54 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#37963: Apr 21st 2016 at 6:32:05 AM

Freeza's from space, to him...a minute could be like 5 days.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#37964: Apr 21st 2016 at 6:56:27 AM

Hey Tobias, bring me the page were we learned Tien didn't surpass first form Freeza, if you please.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#37965: Apr 21st 2016 at 7:00:56 AM

We'd also need a page that says the opposite.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#37966: Apr 21st 2016 at 7:17:46 AM

That's because it is irrelevant. Placing any sort of emphasis onto it, as if there was some factual information, is an actual asspull no matter what.

BTW, remember, Golden Freeza is Super Saiyan God tier, but without divine ki. His power, unlike those of Beerus, Whis or the Saiyan Gods, CAN be felt. And it is the kind of power that dwarves everything seen before.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#37967: Apr 21st 2016 at 7:30:54 AM

I think Tobias meant that Tien saying "that" was redundant, because he's still hecks weaker than Freezerator anyway.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#37968: Apr 21st 2016 at 7:56:27 AM

Freeza fight Goku: 3,000,000

Yardrat Goku: 4,000,000

Android Arc Goku: 6,000,000

Cell Games Goku: 60,000,000

Buu Saga Goku: 80,000,000

Battle of Gods Goku: 90,000,000

100% Freeza: 120,000,000

Base Goku < 100% Freeza works fine for me.

edited 21st Apr '16 7:58:36 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#37969: Apr 21st 2016 at 8:47:26 AM

Tien is an ice cube trying to gauge the difference in temperature between a lightning strike and the surface of the sun. Whether he can feel them or not is irrelevent; they are so far beyond his conceivable frame of reference that the difference might as well be nonexistent.

edited 21st Apr '16 8:50:15 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#37970: Apr 21st 2016 at 8:48:31 AM

So what?

He made a comment on how powerful Frieza is. Everyone does that.

I don't see why this particular moment is so worthy of pointing out.

You act like Tien committed some horrible crime in saying something.

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#37971: Apr 21st 2016 at 8:49:25 AM

Lightning can be hotter than the surface of the sun.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#37973: Apr 21st 2016 at 8:51:06 AM

Speaking of people who are basically worthless to this situation, why isn't Yamcha here? I thought the point of leaving Android 18 behind was so that the arc could feature the people who were involved with the original Frieza arc. It's a bit of a stretch to include Tien but I can understand it because he was training at Kaio-sama's at the time and his death was one of the reasons why Krillin, Bulma, and Gohan went to Namek in the first place.

Kame-sennin has literally no reason to be here, however, and if we're including Tien on those grounds then Yamcha should be here too.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#37974: Apr 21st 2016 at 8:52:56 AM

Because fuck Yamcha.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#37975: Apr 21st 2016 at 8:53:59 AM

Nobody f*cks Yamcha but life.

edited 21st Apr '16 8:54:12 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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