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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#37726: Apr 17th 2016 at 2:27:17 PM

Regardless, I'm positive that, given Hit and Beerus' extreme reaction to normal Kaio-Ken SSB Goku, Kaio-Kenx10 SSB Goku is stronger than Beerus, at least.

edited 17th Apr '16 2:28:09 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#37727: Apr 17th 2016 at 2:37:54 PM

SSJG Goku was apparently worth 70% Beerus.

If SSJB Goku is at around the same level, then x10 that would be worth 700% Beerus.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#37728: Apr 17th 2016 at 2:39:49 PM

Eh, even at best tbh. He'd definitely give him trouble.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#37729: Apr 17th 2016 at 2:45:13 PM

I'm starting to understand why people complain that Superman is overpowered. Comic book writers has zero sense of scale in everything. How is there any tension when the hero can do such ludicrous crap?

That's a little bit hypocritical. Goku and Beerus were recently fist-bumping so hard, Old Kai claimed it would destroy the universe. Not the galaxy, not the planet, not an ocean. The universe.

Manga is actually a little worse in that regard.

Whis isn't sweating it because he's Whis, but Beerus might be wondering if he's should stop thinking about if Goku will ever be strong enough to challenge and start thinking when.

Heh.

Next arc we'll see Beerus training like crazy to maintain the gap between him and Goku, only to be flabbergasted when Goku uses Kaioken to make up the difference.

edited 17th Apr '16 3:09:39 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#37730: Apr 17th 2016 at 2:47:49 PM

I think Beerus recognizes that Goku may be getting closer to the time where he could legitimately beat him.

Hell, if you took Super Saiyan Blue, Kaio-ken, and adding in fusion Earrings, then Vegetto could definitely do it.

Though Toriyama seems to hate fusion now, and avoids it at every opportunity except for playing it for laughs with Goten and Trunks.

Whis isn't sweating it because he's Whis, but Beerus might be wondering if he's should stop thinking about if Goku will ever be strong enough to challenge and start thinking when.

One Strip! One Strip!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#37731: Apr 17th 2016 at 2:50:13 PM

[up][up]I'm starting to understand why people complain that Goku is overpowered. Manga writers has zero sense of scale in everything. How is there any tension when the hero can do such ludicrous crap?

See how funny that claim looks now? Especially in light of the recent Super episode.

edited 17th Apr '16 2:50:51 PM by VeryMelon

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#37732: Apr 17th 2016 at 3:05:37 PM

Funny thing is, that statement isn't incorrect.

Just because Toriyama's clearly trying to one up Superman by this point doesn't mean that comic book writers aren't still completely terrible at judging scale.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#37733: Apr 17th 2016 at 3:09:04 PM

The point is, some anime and manga fans tend to be hypocritical when it comes to critiquing western comic book superheros.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#37734: Apr 17th 2016 at 3:09:51 PM

So what we should really do is critique all fiction equally then?tongue

One Strip! One Strip!
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#37735: Apr 17th 2016 at 3:10:29 PM

Since my last prediction was approximately correct, I'll make another one like DJ Khaled...

WHITE OOZARU KAIOKEN x20

With that immense power, Goku will control the power of Oozaru, combine it with the godly power of Super Saiyan White (if that ever happens) and then combine that with Kaioken x20!

I can already picture it now...

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#37736: Apr 17th 2016 at 3:12:24 PM

I'd say they're equally ridiculous.

Toriyama just had the bad fortune of making Goku stronger than God after the Death Battle came out and assured us, "Goku can't beat this guy because Superman is basically a god."

Well turns out Goku is scaring actual gods in his universe. Unless there's another pantheon of gods somewhere, Beerus and Whis are really the only two things stopping Vegeta from declaring himself God-Emperor Vegeta, Prince of all Saiyans.

edited 17th Apr '16 3:15:19 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#37737: Apr 17th 2016 at 3:14:31 PM

"And the hilarious joke is, God-Emperor Vegeta was never crowned King of the Saiyans. He rages about that to this day."

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#37739: Apr 17th 2016 at 3:27:59 PM

Anyone want DBH Cereal?

It's chocolaty, full of vitamins and minerals and each box comes with a rare promo card.

Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#37740: Apr 17th 2016 at 3:35:32 PM

Toriyama just had the bad fortune of making Goku stronger than God after the Death Battle came out and assured us, "Goku can't beat this guy because Superman is basically a god."

I think the general argument that Death Battle made still holds up though about the opposing nature of Superman and Goku. No matter how powerful Goku gets, there's going to be a new ceiling for him to pvercome. There functionally is no ceiling for Superman.

edited 17th Apr '16 3:35:53 PM by Lionheart0

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#37741: Apr 17th 2016 at 4:05:40 PM

I'm sorry. Just re-read that and cut what I said before.

I personally never accepted the argument they made in the first place. I think Superman does have a ceiling. I'd agree they have opposing natures, but not that Superman's power is limitless.

edited 17th Apr '16 4:18:31 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#37742: Apr 17th 2016 at 4:06:51 PM

Well people do that the faster you go, the more time slows down around you right? I mean, that was covered in an episode of Bill Nye the Science Guy. >.>

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#37743: Apr 17th 2016 at 4:07:06 PM

Except no, that's not how Superman works at all. All 'limitless' feats for standard Superman are nebulous and debatable what they really mean. Superman is consistently portrayed as having limits and needing help in all of his incarnations.

edited 17th Apr '16 4:08:04 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#37744: Apr 17th 2016 at 4:09:43 PM

Why does this Superman talk keep coming up? What makes people think Dragon Ball is trying to out due Superman?

There are so many versions of Superman anyway. Remember that Batman comic where he barely survived a nuke? There would be no way that version of Superman would be able to survive a hit from a moon destroying Kamehameha.

And it's not really a difference between comic book writers and manga writers. Manga are comics. Not all of them are in "book" format but it's the same medium. Bring a comic book to Japan and most people will call it a manga. The difference is between Superman and everything else.

Characters like Marvel Thor have the power to crack planets in half because they live on ultra dense worlds on the different planes of existence where that kind of strength is merely "sort of rarish", rather than "super". Characters in Jojo have vampirism, and mystical stands and whatnot with pre explained and deeply detailed abilities. Even Wonder Woman get's her blessings from gods and or alien super science.

Superman absorbs sunlight. This allows him to fly...how? Even in Dragon Ball flight is explicitly a KI technique, there's some attempt to explain it. Cyclops from the X-Men absorbs sunlight too, all kinds of light, which he can release with kinetic force. Not terribly scientific but at least they're trying, it's still a light based thing. Does superman leave behind heat trails, radiation or something when he flies? Okay, well don't explain it, but please explain how he can fly around the world multiple times to fix fault lines one time but the next time he does it sends him back in time. Most characters have to learn new abilities, have some justification for it. Superman gets them at plot's demand. Most characters have reasons for getting stronger. Spider-man was a teenager back then and or has since been powered up by metamorphosis. Superman goes from having some trouble punching down a particularly well made door to punching away hurricanes, well because. And again, lets of other characters have all sorts of different abilities to do different things. Thor can stop storms because he's a storm god. He can stop earthquakes because he can invoke Gaea due to being related to her. Superman does it just because.

And Superman doesn't spend most of his time fighting other inexplicably powered aliens, but smug balding business men in suits, or smug balding scientists, or balding former football players who happened to get some kryptonite, or smug radio DJs who really only have one superpower to Superman's half dozen and counting. Generally people who aren't going to threaten the coast guard, let alone the entire planet. Oh sure, he has Darkseid, but Darkseid wasn't originally written to be a Superman villain but a "whole entire universe must stand against him" villain. But all the sudden Superman can punch him a couple times and fly him through the sun. DC has to write a whole entire mega crossover to give Darkseid his status back afterwards.

Then DC reboots the comic universe, Superman's powers become more manageable. Then Superman muscling his strength back up to planet pulling and starts adding more ridiculous powers like psionics for no reason and in a few decades they'll probably have to reboot the comic universe again (they've rebooted three times already, though it's actually the first reboot where Superman's powers got way too out of hand and the second and third that tried to bring him back down, this is why you end up with comics where Superman nearly dies from a nuke but then is fine wading through nukes on Kryptonite).

And it's not just comic books. The Superman movies started with him being disabled by a kryptonite necklace in a swimming pool. Then in Superman Returns he gets a slab of kryptonite stabbed into him before being brutally beaten and dumped in the ocean and not only manages to stay above water on his own but then lift an entire island made out of kryptonite and push it out into space before requiring medical treatment...again, a movie where his "nemesis" is a smug balding "criminal mastermind" with a staff of three, none of whom have any super powers whatsoever. IronmanSpider-manBatman The Punisher should be able to get the job done, why did Superman have to be made so much more powerful than he was prior to beat them?(in fact, the movies might be worse than the comics in that regard, I'm pretty sure no print media ever gave him on the spot rebuild the Great Wall of China vision)

edited 17th Apr '16 4:14:18 PM by IndirectActiveTransport

Buldogue's lawyer
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#37745: Apr 17th 2016 at 4:16:52 PM

I'm actually really interested in how Vegeta will react to this revelation. I mean, he looked PISSED. Makes you wonder what he's going to do. And, I'll be honest, I never expected Goku to actually outclass him. This changes the entire status quo I thought Super was sticking to.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#37746: Apr 17th 2016 at 4:17:21 PM

Well I think the most recent iteration of Superman, New 52/Post-Flashpoint, had his flight explained as him releasing a gravitational field from his body that lets him defy gravity and fly.

Plus, Post-Flashpoint Superman has really only gained two new powers aside from the ones that are "standard" for Superman now; the Super Flare, where he expels all the solar energy stored in his cells in one explosive blast, incinerating everything a quarter mile around him, though becoming essentially human for 24 hours afterwards, and a Super Radar, which gives him the ability to sense transmissions, energy waves, and signals spanning all across the planet; giving him the ability of also being a "super antenna".

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#37747: Apr 17th 2016 at 4:24:16 PM

I'm actually really interested in how Vegeta will react to this revelation. I mean, he looked PISSED. Makes you wonder what he's going to do. And, I'll be honest, I never expected Goku to actually outclass him. This changes the entire status quo I thought Super was sticking to.

[lol]

I guess there'll be a repeat of Semi-Perfect Cell, sooner or later.

Vegeta: Fate of the universe... surpassing Kakarot... my marriage... surpass Kakarot...

Bulma: Vegeta!

Vegeta: I'm thinking about it, woman!

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#37748: Apr 17th 2016 at 5:23:23 PM

Okay, I saw a damn fine fight, with clever tactics and the return of the technique that allowed Goku to outright become stronger that opponents that outclassed him, starting with Vegeta (and rubbing it back).

I come to this thread and all I see is people worshipping numbers. As if this was a JRPG or something.

Remember, Vegeta was curbstomped by Hit and Goku managed to pull out a better fight BECAUSE he was a better fighter than Vegeta. And Hit curbstomped Vegeta because of his techniques, not because of any raw power. And Piccolo could have won with sheer technique.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#37749: Apr 17th 2016 at 5:26:55 PM

Thinking he's caught up before being suddenly outclassed is the story of Vegeta's life. I don't know why anyone's surprised by that.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#37750: Apr 17th 2016 at 5:32:48 PM

[up][up]Have you seen all the pages that were just gushing about how awesome it was when it first came out?


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