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Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#3726: Oct 7th 2013 at 10:32:15 AM

I am still going to say that Goku lost that power-up when he went back to normal.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Cider The Final ECW Champion from Not New York Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
#3727: Oct 7th 2013 at 1:17:20 PM

One of my favorite fan theories is that the form seen in battle of the gods is actually incomplete because Pan was not a super saiyan yet and the "real" super saiyan god will be strong enough to beat Bills.

Another is that Akira Toriyama never forgot about Lunch but purposefully wrote her out because her transformations were too similar to super saiyan and he could not come up with anything else...and that Perfect Cell makes Cell Jrs using Android 17 and 18's reproductive tracts.

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#3728: Oct 7th 2013 at 6:25:21 PM

[up][up] He did. At the end of the series, chronologically after BOG, he still thinks that the reincarnation of Pure Buu, who has the same strength as Pure Buu but no magic, body manipulation, infinite stamina, and regeneration, has a chance at beating him. So no, the assertion that Goku is even in the same league as Gohan is bullshit. He remains several times weaker than both him and Gotenks.

[up] His ability to do that came from Piccolo's cells, not human reproductive systems, because the way he gives birth (and the nature of his children) does not resemble anything human at all, and is seemingly a direct call back to King Piccolo's offspring.

edited 7th Oct '13 6:31:55 PM by sockpuppet1

Cider The Final ECW Champion from Not New York Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
#3729: Oct 8th 2013 at 8:38:49 AM

To be fair, Uub would have gotten stronger just from the aging process, but assuming Gohan kept in some kind of shape, Goku probably would not have caught up with him. If Gohan slacked off though, I could see Goku, Buu and, as of Battle Of The Gods, Vegeta surpassing him again. (I suppose that without Vegeta's continued existence we would never get to see Gotenks, who is another possible candidate for maybe surpassed Gohan during the time skip so I guess I can excuse him but things related to Trunks are all that excuse Vegeta's continued existence).

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
TheAirman Brightness from The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Brightness
#3730: Oct 8th 2013 at 2:14:04 PM

Shouldn't Goten and Trunks have the potential to reach Mystic alongside Gohan?

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Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#3731: Oct 8th 2013 at 2:23:03 PM

Not necessarily. Gohan just had the potential, it had nothing to do with being a half-saiyan-half-human or anything.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
TheAirman Brightness from The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Brightness
#3732: Oct 8th 2013 at 2:44:49 PM

Ah, never mind then.

PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/They
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#3733: Oct 8th 2013 at 3:18:44 PM

It's about as well explained as Gohan's Hidden Power, where whenever he gets angry, he just suddenly skyrockets his power level to Current Villain-crunching levels for about five seconds because reasons.

edited 8th Oct '13 3:19:00 PM by TobiasDrake

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sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#3734: Oct 8th 2013 at 6:51:26 PM

Ultimate Gohan can't lose power by simply not training. Even if he could, it would be ridiculous that he could lose so much of it. He's several times stronger than Goku. In fact, Toriyama said that Goku was the one who got weaker by the EOZ, not Gohan.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#3735: Oct 8th 2013 at 8:43:37 PM

I can't imagine that Goku got weaker by the end of Z, since he's able to go toe-to-toe with what is essentially Kid Buu while in base form.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
MsCC93 Since: May, 2012
#3736: Oct 8th 2013 at 9:37:45 PM

Sorry to change the topic, but what bothers me about the fanbase is their annoying Creator Worship. Whenever you say that a character wasn't written well, or this or that wasn't written well (in your opinion), they're quick to defend Toriyama and chastise you for your opinion.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#3737: Oct 8th 2013 at 9:40:51 PM

I don't see that much. We poke fun at Toriyama all the time for forgetting about certain characters or overemphasizing Goku.

There was a lot of Executive Meddling involved, though, so you can't blame him for a lot of the things people do blame him for.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#3738: Oct 8th 2013 at 10:04:38 PM

[up][up][up] Not really, no. When he first fought Uub, Uub was still at a level that he was mistaken for a normal human. Very weak. Then he insulted Uub, and Uub got mad, and made a huuuuuuuge jump in power to moderately stronger than Goku. Then Goku insulted him further; Uub powered up a little and Goku got impressed. The end.

Goku never fought full power Uub, who would at best be equal to Pure Buu. He fought slightly pissed off Buu. So no, Goku never "went toe to toe with what is essentially Kid Buu in base".

Just think about it logically: if Goku could smack Pure Buu down in BASE, why would he be exciting about fighting him later? Why would he still think that Pure Buu could beat him? Why wouldn't he be interested in fighting Vegeta instead, who would also be stronger than Pure Buu in base? Why would he say that either him or Mr. Buu would win the tournament (until Uub showed up), not even considering Vegeta a competitor? Why has he never, ever, EVER made a jump anywhere near this big with training before?

And "I can't see this happening" doesn't matter for much when the author of the story outright said he was weaker.

edited 8th Oct '13 10:05:56 PM by sockpuppet1

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#3739: Oct 8th 2013 at 10:08:20 PM

Ah, okay. Wasn't sure how much power Uub was using.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
MsCC93 Since: May, 2012
#3740: Oct 8th 2013 at 10:11:06 PM

[up] Oh, no. I don't bash creators, lol. As for executive meddling, I agree that it's unfair to blame him. I just meant when it came to the characters anyways.

Cider The Final ECW Champion from Not New York Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
#3741: Oct 9th 2013 at 8:56:00 AM

And when did the author outright say he was weaker? From what I remember Goku had spent the time training while Goten and Trunks were the ones who were "slacking" (they stilled trained but not to any standard Goku or Vegeta found acceptable).

And do we know Ultimate Gohan can't get weaker from training. Let us be honest, as angry as everyone got at the Battle Of The Gods preview, which showed Gohan in Super form, if they had simply said Elder Kai's powerup eventually faded away or did not stick with Gohan after he died (correct me if he survived the destruction of the Earth) there would not be anything in the comic to say otherwise. (as is they just changed his palette for the "fight" scene then had him go Super for the ritual.)

(but then, Gohan just sits above Vegeta in likeability to me. He has Piccolo and Goku's training and has yet to come up with anything distinctive? He supposedly is a scholar too but what has he invented, discovered or improved with that knowledge? He has a big power level, that other people unlock for him, and little else.)

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#3742: Oct 9th 2013 at 2:02:49 PM

And when did the author outright say he was weaker?

He said that he chose the BOG time period because most characters were at their maximum strength, and that everyone was too old at the Eo Z. Confirmation Goku is weaker, and heavy implication Gohan is not, since he isn't old at all.

Interview link: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/super-long-interview-please-tell-us-akira-toriyama-sensei/

Q: Why did you choose this period?

A: The fact is, I thought, “Man, I really made everyone old in the last chapter of the manga”. I even gave Vegeta a mustache (laughs). So, I chose this period because everyone had got to maximum strength. A few years after the “Majin Buu arc”, and before Pan’s birth.

And do we know Ultimate Gohan can't get weaker from training.

Yes. That's a lifetime max. Even if it wasn't, no one can get weaker due to just not training, they have to age significantly and get a weaker body, like King Piccolo. Gohan is still in his prime.

Let us be honest, as angry as everyone got at the Battle Of The Gods preview, which showed Gohan in Super form, if they had simply said Elder Kai's powerup eventually faded away or did not stick with Gohan after he died (correct me if he survived the destruction of the Earth) there would not be anything in the comic to say otherwise. (as is they just changed his palette for the "fight" scene then had him go Super for the ritual.)

Actually, there would: Gohan still has his "Ultimate" appearance at the EOZ.

And besides, it would be major bullshit if someone just randomly LOST a transformation after death, seeing as how that's never happened before ever.

Goku has no hope at all of ever catching up. Even if Gohan got weaker while he got stronger (which isn't the case), the gap would just be too big.

Cider The Final ECW Champion from Not New York Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
#3743: Oct 9th 2013 at 4:57:49 PM

Goku is not mentioned specifically anymore than Gohan is. Vegeta is, but Vegeta was older than Goku before an extra trip to the time chamber and time dead widened that gap. Furthermore it was just the same hidden potential Gohan has always had. He and Vegeta were already stronger than Gohan despite it on Namek and they surpassed his showing against Cell, while Gohan had in turn grown weaker from lack of training. (My personal interpretation is that Gohan's strength would have shot right back up if he had gotten angry, it is not as if he really needed training to headbutt Raditz-just that his ability to do so was involuntary while strengthening through exercise was not)

Furthermore that line about Maximum power and everybody was not at during the Buu saga but after it. Goku might not get any stronger from here all out but it can also be worded that he was not as his strongest during the Buu saga and Gohan was. The difference between Gohan's unlocked potential then was that he did not need to transform but that did not automatically mean he would forever be stronger than someone who did still transform. Vegeto proved that. We know Goten has grown a lot bigger and has not been sitting around during the time skip, yet is still Goku's inferior so he could very well still be in his prime.

The nature of the power up was vague anyway. If Battle Of The Gods or even GT just took the time to explain why Gohan no longer had his mystic power up I would be good with it. Yes he could have lost it at death, if not his own then maybe the death of the Kai who gave it to him. (it could explain why the Elder Kai was sealed away by his enemy rather than just killed off and lead to lots of interesting plot-GT and interesting plots, that would have ended up boring too).

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
johnnysasaki Since: Jun, 2012
#3744: Oct 15th 2013 at 4:25:47 PM

so,Battle of Gods is being showed on theaters here where I live,and I watched it today,and here my impressions: if you watched all the other 13 DBZ movies,you will know what to expect,there were fewer fights compared to the other ones( Bills curb stomps Goku at the beggining,he curb stomps everyone not named Goku and the final fight between Bills and Super Saiyan God Goku) . but it's refreshing to see a movie villain who is actually friendly and doesn't die at the end,though it's kind of a plothole that Pilaf,Shu and Mai show up as kids in this movie because prior to the movie events,they wished to Shenron to become young,but it backfired and they became kids,so,how the hell they got the Four-Star ball if Goku keeps that as a memento from Grandpa Gohan?

And he or his family never noticed it missing at some point?

and nobody apparently noticed that Shenron was called by somebody they don't know at that point even though the whole sky gets dark when it happens?

and nobody who met them in the past like Bulma,Yamcha or Oolong found them familiar even if they looked younger.

Incidentally,they indirectly mention Vegeta's younger brother,Tarble,from that OVA from a few years ago so I guess his existence is really canon,and King Vegeta also makes a flashback cameo so his design must be canon as well. The fact that I can watch an anime on theaters only happens once in a life time for me made it even more enjoyable,and the final fight had awesome visual effects,and the end sort of teases a possibility for more movies in the future.I hope so,because even if the movie didn't reach the high expectations Toei had for it in Japan,I heard it reached high box-offices in many countries that it had been screened so far,and easily reached the top 5 of the weeks(especially in Europe and Latin America.Here in Brazil,it got the second highest opening losing only to Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs 2 and it got number 5 on box-offices overall,losing only to Meatballs 2,Gravity,Elysium,and a Brazillian movie.In other Latin-American countries I heard Battle of Gods is currently number 1 in theaters.)so I hope they take that into consideration. Let's hope the issues between Funimation and Fox(since Fox has worldwide distribution rights of the movie.Apparently it was part of the deal when they made that Evolution crap,go figures...)don't screw up the chances of this movie in North America as well.

Another thing to note is that the two songs provided by FLOW band were in English instead of Japanese,and they,as the owners of the songs,didn't allow the Latin American release to make a dub of their Cha-La-HEAD-Cha-La theme in the movie.)

edited 15th Oct '13 4:31:01 PM by johnnysasaki

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#3745: Oct 15th 2013 at 5:25:59 PM

The sky doesn't darken all the way across the planet. It would be easy not to notice if they summoned Shenron somewhere far away from where the heroes are.

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Cider The Final ECW Champion from Not New York Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
#3746: Oct 15th 2013 at 6:07:58 PM

Incidentally, Senbei specifically says that it had been a long time since he appeared in a Jump, that means it has to be the same one.

I guess that would also mean that Kami tried to lock humanity into medieval stasis. No wonder he was deemed unworthy to be Earth's god.

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#3747: Oct 16th 2013 at 10:08:55 PM

So, aside from several things, I think I just realized my major problem with Bo TG. Super Saiyan God, it just looks....lazy. Even if the fake picture was just a recolored Super Saiyan 4, "God" is just Kaioken. I mean, they could've at least made his hair stand up. I dunno, it was just...visually unimpressive.

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Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#3748: Oct 16th 2013 at 11:04:38 PM

I think it's suppose to show that even the least non-threatening appearances can be dangerous, which granted, the Dragon Ball series is kind of known for with True Form Frieza, Fat Buu, the Cell Jr's, and Kid Buu.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#3749: Oct 16th 2013 at 11:09:51 PM

I can kind of understand that, but with the Super Saiyan forms, there was always a serial escalation. Regular Super Saiyan, "Ultra," "Ultra Mk 2," Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan 3, I'm sure Legendary fits somewhere in that graph, maybe even 4, and with a name like SUPER SAIYAN GOD, you're expecting something a bit more....grandiose.

Holy shit, I just described Frieza's transformations. XD

My various fanfics.
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#3750: Oct 18th 2013 at 12:27:18 PM

Too much fan fiction. We've all seen the fakes of Super Saiyan 5-20, with Goku donning a white mane of hair and looking absurdly powerful, flying thousands of feet above the ground and having his hair drag across the ocean.

Can't blame Bo TG for taking the less extravagant approach.

edited 18th Oct '13 12:32:26 PM by FOFD


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