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randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#37076: Apr 5th 2016 at 3:45:12 AM

[up][up]Only time will ring that...that might not remain true, probably.

I'm open minded about this.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#37077: Apr 5th 2016 at 5:05:13 AM

'Canon' is pretty much just 'written by Toriyama'. That includes the manga, Battle of Gods (which wasn't originally written by him, but he practically rewrote the entire movie when he saw the original script) and Resurrection 'F' (which he's definitely said he wrote the general script for). I mean, sure, maybe some of the ideas in the movies weren't 100% his ideas, but you could say that of the manga, too. You know, editors and stuff.

I actually don't know if Online has any input from Toriyama. I mean, it's not like he mentions it in interviews or anything. And if he did put some input in, he might not remember.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#37078: Apr 5th 2016 at 5:10:17 AM

'Canon' is pretty much just 'whatever advances the agenda of the fan bringing it up'

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#37079: Apr 5th 2016 at 5:14:13 AM

Saiga's words are so powerful, you can't even see them.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#37080: Apr 5th 2016 at 5:14:37 AM

Fair enough.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#37081: Apr 5th 2016 at 5:21:46 AM

[up][up][up] I knew I liked you for some reason.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#37082: Apr 5th 2016 at 5:37:20 AM

Then it doesn't exist for the Dragon Ball as it's only relevant to the fans who care.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#37083: Apr 5th 2016 at 5:45:57 AM

Saying Canon is "whatever" is basically just justifying whatever stupid change happens under the pretense 'Well Toriyama did it :V"

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#37084: Apr 5th 2016 at 5:54:31 AM

I thought that's what we were already doing. (* >*)

That's what I was getting frrom that last page.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#37085: Apr 5th 2016 at 6:01:06 AM

Toriyama has the right to do whatever stupid thing he feels like. It's his series, what he says goes.

If you choose to ignore him and his work that's valid, but doesn't actually change the canon or the text itself.

What Toriyama wrote is what Toriyama wrote. What he decides counts goes.

edited 5th Apr '16 6:08:54 AM by unnoun

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#37086: Apr 5th 2016 at 6:07:04 AM

To take that statement at face value...Battle of Gods and Revival of Freezerator both happened twice.

But no one remembers because the universe reset.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#37087: Apr 5th 2016 at 6:14:07 AM

[up][up] So, dat don't means I gots to like or agree with it :V

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#37088: Apr 5th 2016 at 6:18:56 AM

Where the author has power is over the text and what that text consists of. Where the reader has power is the interpretation of that text.

Even if you try to change the text, you aren't, really. Putting a mustache on the Mona Lisa doesn't change the actual painting Leonardo made. Editing Jarjar out of Star Wars doesn't alter the actual movies or their canon.

Whether the author has the right to alter the text is a thorny issue, but they definitely have the right to add more to it.

Now, what they cannot control is what you do with the text when you get it. If you say that Super is dumb and only the manga counts, that's your prerogative and your Dragon Ball. But that's not Toriyama's Dragon Ball or the "Canon" Dragon Ball.

Canon is the definition of what texts contstitute a work and is mainly the domain of the author.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#37089: Apr 5th 2016 at 6:32:41 AM

Okay, but then:

Canon:

  • Dragonball (the manga)
  • Dragonball (the anime, and the movies, featuring contributions and revisions from Akira Toriyama)
  • Dragonball Battle of Gods (Toriyama rewrote the script)
  • Resurrection of Frieza (Toriyama was directly involved)
  • Dragonball Super (the anime, Toriyama has some level of involvement)
  • Minus (collected in Jaco the Galactic Patrolman, drawn and written directly by Toriyama, housewife Saiyans and all)

Not sure:

  • Dragonball Super (the manga, I stopped reading around the 5th or 6th chapter when the tournament started, I thought Toriyama was drawing/writing it, but someone said it was done by Toyble - the ideas still came from Toriyama?)

Non-canon:

edited 5th Apr '16 6:33:47 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#37090: Apr 5th 2016 at 6:34:37 AM

It's really just guesswork until somebody official actually says "this is canon" or we actually find out what level of involvement went into each project.

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#37091: Apr 5th 2016 at 6:56:24 AM

Judging by this interview, Toriyama and Toyble seem pretty close.

Just remember, 5 years ago, he was just like any of us, writing what was essentially a fanfic with his DBAF comic. It's kinda amazing how fast Toyble rose in the Mangaka industry.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#37092: Apr 5th 2016 at 7:01:25 AM

Canon is whatever advances the agenda of the fan that brings it up eh?

So that's pretty much 90% of the people in this thread isn't it?tongue

I kid! I kid!

I mean, I don't, but I'm pretty awesome anyway so it can be expected.cool

Then again, I think everything has potential, even the stuff people hate, so maybe I'm not one to talk.

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#37093: Apr 5th 2016 at 7:35:08 AM

Supposedly Toriyama supervised all aspects of Online, even the story. Placement of locations. Not just the designs, which he was working on for years beforehand.

At least. That's what Namco Bandai said in a press release that has since been taken down.

I don't think Toriyama's done any interviews about it.

Demetrios Making darkness adorable since 1999 from Des Plaines, Illinois (unfortunately) Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Making darkness adorable since 1999
#37094: Apr 5th 2016 at 7:35:18 AM

Is there anything cooler than Bulma saying "Screw you!" to Frieza? cool

Come on! Let's bless them all until we get fershnickered!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#37095: Apr 5th 2016 at 7:43:31 AM

Toriyama contributions to the anime.

I dunno if there's any documentation about what he did for Online. Other than a press release from the company hyping up how much creative control and input he had.

A press release that I haven't seen because it's been removed, and the game's servers were discontinued, and in a language I don't understand.

edited 5th Apr '16 7:47:44 AM by unnoun

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#37096: Apr 5th 2016 at 7:47:25 AM

[up][up]Yes.

Cooler.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#37097: Apr 5th 2016 at 7:54:08 AM

I didn't know he personally picked Nazawa. Or that he would think of her voice while writing Goku in the manga.

So in some sense. I guess Nazawa's Goku and the manga Goku blur together a lot. The two influence each other and feed on each other and feed into each other.

Which would include Goku's thick accent.

edited 5th Apr '16 8:01:37 AM by unnoun

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#37098: Apr 5th 2016 at 8:03:23 AM

I think this particular interview has been posted before (probably by you Unoun, but I'm not complaining).

Still it's always interesting to see how much influence Toriyama has really had on the anime besides the obvious stuff (character designs and making the source material in the first place).

One Strip! One Strip!
Demetrios Making darkness adorable since 1999 from Des Plaines, Illinois (unfortunately) Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Making darkness adorable since 1999
#37099: Apr 5th 2016 at 8:05:16 AM

[up][up][up]You mean Frieza's brother? I don't remember that part. ^_^;;

Come on! Let's bless them all until we get fershnickered!
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012

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